So my questions. I've been doing this for 30 years now and have seen something odd finally. I recieved a film from a collector on another forum which had an odd intro tag. The film was faded Eastman as was the tag but the feature was presented in 4:3 with a single line variable area sountrack still dark (the sound area) and sounded very well. The tag (I guess I should say logo) into was faded red 20th centuaryFox but the soundtrack was printed in Variable Density and also faded as badly as the image. I thought the logo may be a dupe tacked onto the feature since it was spliced in but I haven't seen a color variable denstity soundtrack fade like this since the image is so clear. Was told a few years ago that the sound area on 16mm is treated differently than the image area but not sure if that is true or not. It's been my ecperience over the years that even when a film fades the soundtrack usually stays pretty stable if lab printed.
Was wondering if anyone else has seen this? I do have current prints in variable density that are printed using a blended color and black process which produce pretty good sound but this little logo has me curious.

Erik,

I am unable to help answer your very interesting question; any chance you could share an image of the film frame and soundtrack here?

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A few months ago I bought a 16mm black & white feature on eBay. The seller said they had no 16mm projector so it was buy as seen and no return.
When it arrived the picture was quite OK but the variable area sound track had almost faded away. On projection the sound had to have full volume to hear any dialogue, but the hiss was so prevalent that the print was completely unusable.
I got my money back, but no apology.
Erik's comments about picture and sound being treated differently certainly sounds possible. I have collected 16mm for sixty years (or more) but have never experienced anything like this before.

To Maurice, I have one print that I really looked for which was a Manbeck dupe of a L&H film. It was B&W and the picture quality was excellent as expected for a copy from them but like you experienced, the sound was very low and variable density. May have been overexposed in the transfer. My question is about a color possible dupe print. Have never seen a soundtrack fade even on faded lab prints. Usually they are still dark no matter if they are VD or VA prints. It's just a logo but something I have never seen. I have a full print of Blazing Saddles that has gone completely brown and still fading but the color soundtrack is still black as it can be. I'll try to post a pic of the logo frame to show the sound area but not sure how to photograph it yet. I'll look at my camera and try the macro settings. May be able to post pics of my dupes VS lab prints to another reply.
I did look at the sprocket area and the logo is printed on a really cheap Eastman stock from the 70's which explains the fading but not the faded soundtrack.

Still looking for a camera that can photograph image area and soundtrack at the same time. I'll put pics up when I can find the right equiptment that can show what I'm talking about. Sorry for the delay.

Could it be like this since any given point in the area for the audio track has either full exposure or no exposure to the light while being exposed? The sound curve has no gradients. I would expect an exposure like that has only the two extremes to survive a bit longer when it starts to fade as it doesn't start with a middle tone.

In a way I agree with you Eivind. If this were some kind of dupe print then you would expect the light exposure would be even across the print including the sound area. To me that would explain why the sound area is faded as badly as the image area. However I passed the question a few years ago onto other forums because I have several prints that have faded in different incriments from orange to brown to almost unwatchable pink but the sound area was still retaining it's black, sometimes blue and in one case yellow when the image area was almost gone. My response was that the image area is treated, exposed and fixed in processing differntly that the image area. Not sure how that is possible but I have several examples here of badly faded images but solid soundtracks in many colors. I'm looking for the time and equiptment to show several prints that show this different fading of the films. Until then all I can do is offer some examples through explination. This started off as a simple question about a film tag opening a feature and I've already figured that the logo has to be a dupe because even though the rest of the film is faded red the soundtrack is a double variable area soundtrack is dark black. The print I am talking about is a library or rental print so it is from a reputable lab. Just wondering how they were printed to still have viable soundtracks when the image area goes south.