I was in conversation the other day with the creator of the re generation of the newer post 2019 super 8 releases. We all know the first and biggest was Jurassic Park, a popular title among many film goers. Then followed many other releases which I wont need to list here as they are now well know on the forums.
What really strikes me is this, the forums are home to hundred's of members between the two yet, after an investment of $17,000.00 dollars between 11 releases, he only broke even with Jurassic park.
I will start with myself here, I did support the JP release but unfortunately, I'm an average joe in an average wage job so to purchase other releases was not an option for me. The Home alone release came close but I had other films come my way and I was/am hesitant about how long the single stripe will stay on the film. Also, As I mentioned before, I sell to buy, so if I sold a couple of decent films, maybe a feature in order to buy a few shorts, I could no longer justify buying new. Great though it is to see.
Because of the lack of interest I know that David will not spend another cent on super 8 as he cant lose money just to please so few people.
It's very easy for me to sit here and ask why so few people buy the releases, as I've already said, I havnt other than the first one, it may be the subject matter is not always of interest, but then it's up to the person releasing the titles what he wants to see released. I know the costs of producing a print has gone up a lot, unfortunately, with multiple countries involved it will make the costs either out of reach, or, in my case, not good value for money.
We rarely hear how many prints are sold of the new releases, but having now found out that less than 20 collectors in the whole world bought any of the 11 releases from Dave films, I can see why he has given up. No single title will ever please all collectors, but less than 20??? Even with JP which he managed to break even.

I recall 20 to 30 prints was what Derann told me they had to sell before moving into profit and they made their releases in house for the later part.
Apart from all that, I know there was a problem with some sap trying to throw a spanner in the works which caused a lot of upset at the time.

This subject always upsets someone, if you comment on subject matter or cost then your negative, you can't mention colours, digital sourced prints are a no no, with all the negativity I'm surprised 20 were sold, Mark

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Interesting post this Tom and there are no easy answers as it's a bit of everything.

To start with the Forums I think you have to look at active members rather than the whole membership. And of those active members I think you have to be of a certain age to want to buy the new releases. Dare I say it many older folk are mostly happy with what they have got and prefer to relive their younger days watching the older cutdowns they used to watch when younger (Walton, Mountain, Castle etc) and are happy with the quality and are not serious about buying top features for big money.

Like most things it's a combination of Cost, Availability, Title and more. Film was never cheap even in the heyday. I've seen ads from the 70's where a 4x400 edited feature was around £70, quite a bit back then but they sold. When the 80's came and video took over but Derann carried on and sold loads especially at events like the BFCC where there would be big piles of new releases. Different times then but Derann managed to get films pre printed in larger batches of say 30-50 and worry about selling them later. But I guess there was also more younger UK collectors who would go to these events. Derann also catered to all tastes with many modern films. Ged always said Arnie always sold well which is one reason several of his films made it to Super 8. Derann also had regular newsletters and magazines which helped build a friendly atmosphere?? about buying new releases and secondhand films.

I've bought many new releases over the last 20 years mainly all shorts from the 4 main sources both here in the UK and also the USA. I buy them because I love the quality and they are great to project. Also many reels like Adverts, Cinema Daysets etc. you wont find anywhere else. But I have also bought JP and Jaws and the quality is excellent particularly the colours and sharpness. I stopped buying faded films years ago and concentrated on newer films on LPP or Agfa. Ive also bought many of the Dorun films and why? because they are affordable (just) and coming from a UK source contain many British stuff, the adverts are British, the trailers are British etc. The reels themselves are very full making them great value for money. Ok you are still talking £100+ for a 10 minute reel but it gives me so much pleasure it's worth it in the end particularly if you keep that film for many decades in good condition.

As for Dave films, JP sold well enough and why? Because its a modern (well 30 years ago) Spielberg classic that most collectors would want in their collection with the quality and sharpness offered. Jaws sold reasonably well also but many of his other releases are more niche as Dave is a monster man and releases what he wants. I'm sure if Dave released a 600ft or 400ft of Back To The Future that may also have sold well enough to cover the costs. It's interesting though as Horror and Monster titles sell very well on Ebay. Another big problem today is cost and time. If Dave already got a batch of 50 prints of a top title already printed and ready for sale that may have been better than asking for money up front and then waiting up to a year for the print to land on your doormat. I'm sure that put off some buyers. Derann had the luxury of doing this but as I've said before different times as it seemed easier back then.

Ultimately though it's all down to cost. Just imagine if the cost of a 600ft was just £60, I'm sure a lot more would have been sold. As it is $370 roughly (yes I know I haven't done the conversion yet) makes people think twice with the financial climate we are in today. I'm also sure Tom that if you got a huge wage rise or won £50K on the lottery you would treat yourself to that Home Alone print.

I also wonder if Dave might have been better concentrating on Trailers. This is what some other distributers did like CHC.

There are no easy answers as to why new releases struggle to sell. It just seems today there are less collectors interested in them, but plenty of collectors about and many young collectors who don't mind paying £100+ for an old Advert reel on Ebay.

Graham S

Actually all true and correct Graham, very well put ,Mark

Thanks for the replies, (so far), BUT, i must point out, this thread has been put up with permission of Mr Baker, here we do have actual costs of the investment that was put into the new releases by Dave films which now will not continue because of the reasons mentioned.

Mark is correct when he said if you ask a question or make a comment, (as Paul Adsett did) then you are being negative even when it is only a question and not a put down.

I think it's interesting to see how few titles are sold, but today cine collectors are the few.
Graham is spot on to say if money was no object then of course I'm sure all of us would but everything we want. Unfortunatly, the advertising is restricted to the forums and the reel image magazine. A few went on ebay but clearly, ebay as suggested, does not bring any attention to the hobby for new sales, I was surprised to hear that only around 20 print of JP went out.
Having said all that, Derann only produced around 30 prints of Master & Commander and I do know how much work went into that release with proof copies made first etc, it cost a lot of money and even back then in the throws of the hobby only 30 prints were struck and sold so I guess it isn't so much of a surprise.

Releasing trailers and shorts is fine in this day and age but those 600ft reels are by far the better idea, it's just the cost compared to what you can get for the same money, a good example is my recent purchase of the predator feature. To compare the cost, 4 new 600ft releases would cost around 1200, my 4 x 600 feature was half that so it's a case of value for money.

All new releases are always welcome but it wasn't just some of the comments that got up Dave's nose, it was the fact you get some sap whining about copyright and indeed, trying to take it further, like Hollywood are bothered about a few half hour cutdowns.

I also understand that Dave relied on others to do certain things such as recording the sound, when out of nowhere whoever it was tried to put the cost of this up substantially, the reason given? The cost of living Seriously. Suffice to say he ended that deal and had to find someone else to do it, all of this just makes it more hassle, so Thank you to Dave for letting me share his costs and reasons for not doing any more new titles on 8mm and hopefully its been an eye opener. 17000,00 is a lot to invest and lose on most titles while breaking even on just a few.

Graham did point out also the time factor involved in ordering and receiving which, while I do get, I cant imagine anyone wanting to pay to print off 20 or 30 titles in case only 10 or 15 are sold. When I ordered my copy of JP I made it clear that I knew it would take as long as necessary as at the end of the day, it's a film, it isn't exactly an urgent must have so while I get the excitement of a new film, I never get why some people whine about the time taken when they know the process AND, the time taken is mentioned at the point of order.

I love the ones that criticise the new releases then say they would never buy them, it even gets agreement.


I'm not 100% but in an interview with David didn't he say he releases the films he wants to release and own on film? IF this is the case then at least he does have a few titles that he would enjoy and what an achievement creating them, as I say IF this is the case then it's a massive risk offering films that are so personal to one and hope that like minded collectors will feel the same and buy. With such a huge investment that is a true commitment to the hobby which sadly hasn't worked out but from a personal perspective it was a huge success, Mark

Please remember here, it's DB's releases that this thread relates to NOT the releases Lee is doing.

To be fair, yes he did and made that point loud and clear which as you said may have been a risk but many of those titles were asked for I believe.
I am also guilty of saying I'd buy Home alone if it came out but there were two factors for me. The price was a fair bit higher than JP and more important, while I dont doubt the sound is first rate i just dont trust that single stripe,
I did receive a Danial Graig reel and the sound was faulty, (kept breaking up) and out of sync, aside that, two thirds of the reel was ads while only a third was Danial Graig so it went back. No quality checking, its not like hundred's of prints were being struck so it could have been checked. We dont know enough about the stripe, or the process to glue it to the film.
I know DB was annoyed and upset that the Italian connection who did the striping on JP tried to tell him that they would only continue if they recorded the sound and charged accordingly, it was going to be mega expensive but the process of their striping was well documented and proven.

Please remember here, it's DB's releases that this thread relates to NOT the releases Lee is doing. I need to remind this so people dont think im having a go at todays releases.
I asked the question about costs and profits and DB was happy to share.
I also spoke at length to another dealer who is very experienced in new releases and he believed that 600ft new releases AT THE TIME OF THE FIRST ONE could have be done and sold for around 200/250.

AS for the ones who say they would never buy them, I guess they are at least honest from the off, but if they criticise what they see, I guess it's just an opinion they observe from the images they see put up and are perhaps justifying why they wont buy, (maybe), I've only bought JP and two trl xmas reels and the ones I would like including a decent copy of Jaws and a few others like the Hammer titles are simply a little too expensive for me and as already discussed, I prefer not to buy when copied from digital formats good though they they look, Its more a value for money thing for me, as an example, my 16mm films, most of my features were under 200, many under 100, on the 8mm front we've done pretty good too with the second hand market.

But please remember, this thread is referring only to Dave films and why he has said he wont invest another dollar in super 8, sadly our hobby is very limited, (and dwindling) in numbers of customers so it is quite amazing that in 2020 to 2023 and beyond we are still seeing new releases at all.

Everyone I've shown Jurassic Park to has been amazed at the quality of it, the sound quality is superb too, it's a shame that more didn't sell, I was under the impression it was flying off the shelves.

I did try and buy a copy of the Star Wars cutdown but it sold , Home Alone I have a 16mm print but again it's a very good option for those that don't, Jaws wasn't a purchase I'd want as I have a very good colour 2 400ft, the stripe is a concern but only time will tell, how long was it until it was falling off when Derann had problems? Mark.

It's all done for love, enthusiasm and trying to keep S8 going.
You have to be barmy to do it but there again I have a head start. Ha.
Totally admire Dave and SteO for dedication to the cause.

Thanks to those who kindly support the DR imports we have just about broken even to make the REEL magic happen which is small miracle today.

4 more special imports due before year end and I thank those who have supported many hours of free labour.

Thanks Dave for some superb material!

So that clearly answer the questioned asked originally........ not

I do get all that Lee and it is comendable but the interesting part to go with all the effort is, how is it done? No one needs to know who what or where although clearly Andec are the manufactuers of the prints, but i think its interesting how digital gets to those 8mm prints. By the looks of it im the only one whos interested though.

I think it's an interesting subject Tom but it seems its either a closely guarded secret, we don't get much input on here about new releases other than what's being produced for sale,I would imagine its something along the lines of a 16mm master first then a super 8 taken from that or it could even be film straight to 8, this could explain the various colour discrepancies that are being noticed?? Mark