Filmguard is the cleaner we use now simply because it is available, and it does seem to be pretty good all be it, very very expensive. If you read older threads elsewhere, (as many of us did), we were lead to believe it's a one off application and once done, the treated film should not have to be cleaned again.
In the early days of use, I made the old error of over application, I assumed a good amount was required in order to clean and lubricate. What I didn't expect was how bad an over application could be. Luckily, I learned very quickly thanks to other collectors on here. I also had a conversation with Bill Parsons some years ago regarding the problem of over applying and at that time is was getting back into 16mm. He said, over applying on the larger gauge can make the film jump all over the place on screen, especially on the B&H machines.
There was also a repair man here in Plymouth many many years ago called Projectx. His main repairs were for Eiki's. When I went to him in the mid 90s, i recall being lectured about all the crud he use to talk about in film paths and gate's caused by people over cleaning.

Back to the title of this thread, the one thing film guard isn't, is a one off application. Films I cleaned around four or five years ago definatly do need another clean.
When I checked a couple of my 8mm prints earlier today before a viewing, I could see that the filmgurd on there looked like tiny pools and in some places appeared to have vanished, therefore, contrary to what we were told, it does evaporate to a degree. When i was giving said film a fresh clean using only a very small amount as always, I could feel in places there was a bit of resistance as I was winding the film through, upon the rewind using the clean part of the cloth to take off the excess, it felt fine again. Almost like a recharge of the old cleaner as the new application was made. Had I have assumed this filmguard was the one off as advertised by its "champions" in the states, it would have been either a noisy run through or unsteady, as it happened, it went through smoothly.
So thanks again to Bill Parsons who did advise me of this some yeards back. Do not think that filmguard is a once forever application, it certainly isnt, though It is a good cleaner

If only we could get film renew again, I heard a lot about it but never did get around to getting hold of it.

Definitely not a one off application, they all dry out eventually ,something like a pure lubricant would stay wetter for longer ,a reapplication would not only reactivate the old but help with the new, it will also help with the removal of the films blotchy look where it's dried previously, Mark

Hi Tom,

I use both FilmRenew and FilmGuard. I may be off on this, but I have always thought of FilmRenew as the "cleaner", and FilmGuard as more of a film "lubricant". But I have also noticed the slight spotting that remains on the film from both products. It is not necessarily a problem but it is visible when I run the print across the rewinds above a light pad. Also, it could be that I am not appIying it 100% properly. It would be helpful to know how often we need to reapply these products from the manufacturers. I would prefer a recommendation with a time frame as opposed to the somewhat meaningless "Re-apply as needed"...

Greg, I have heard that film renew is a very good cleaner but unfortunately, i've never used it so it would be unfair for me to comment but it I understand it contains chemicals that are now banned here which is why I cant get it.
In days gone by we used 222 which was fantastic as a cleaner and lubricator, it hid the black lines better than anything else I've used, the only trouble with 222 was that unless you applied it with good ventilation it would knock you out, it was lethal.

As far as applications are concerned, I think everyone has their own way of doing it. When I first saw Roger Lily apply cleaner at Movieland International, he simply put an amount onto a cloth as we all do between two fingers, BUT, the sped which he wound it through whilst holding it down so it had extra tension was, to me, a bit too quick. He did a 400ft reel on geared arms in seconds, then he did it again backwards, same speed. While it was applied, I couldn't see how it could have been effectively cleaned, all he did was cover the film with it and he didn't changed the position of the cloth or stop to put more on, so in my view, that was not done properly. I do mine a similar way but much much slower, a 400 reel takes me a few minutes, but i stop to re apply a very small amount on a different part of the cloth around every 200ft. When I use to over apply, I was adding more every 50ft, way too much as I now know.
Once done, I simply use a different clean, dry cotton cloth and rewind wind the film through this, I put hardly any pressure on it at all, literally just holding it to make a good contact, I've found since doing this that it spreads the cleaner evenly, as well as removing any excess where I re-apply, and I no longer get those wet marks on screen which is where the cleaner is either over applied, or simply pools over time.

Because I followed the idea that filmguard was a once only necessary cleaner, it did not not help my cause with the Elmo wow and flutter. When Bill last had my Elmo for wow on the sound he suggested this time I sent a film that was causing this problem as it was only a few polyester films which seemed to suffer, and he had already done a major repair on this machine, including wow and flutter.
When Bill recieved it and checked it, he asked me if I would mind if he gave the film I supplied a quick clean, it appeared to be that the film was quite dry. I think I had cleaned it around 8 or 10 years previously, I was being very naïve because after 40 years of collecting, it looked like I had been missing the obvious.
While Bill had the machine he did a few other bits and pieces, but the wow on a few films was simply not enough lubrication.

So filmgaurd, as Mark said, is not a one off cleaner. I read the champions of this cleaners comments more than once on the other forum stating that once a film is cleaned with FG, it should never need another application, thats BS. But the way I do mine now appears to be about right and works perfect for us, and as said, we no longer seem to get those wet marks and blobs on screen, just a nice clear image.

Just to finish, i must add that I'm not knocking FG in any way or form, it is a very good cleaner, but it is easier than other cleaners from the past to cause a lot of problems when it is over applied. It would certainly make a mess of the projector path is the films were very wet with it.

I was under the impression that FilmGuard was designed for 35mm film projection in theaters, and not for long-term cleaning and potential preservation. In other words, get the film to run smoothy for a month with 3 to 4 showings a day, and minimize visible scratches on the screen.

I have never used FilmGuard, and probably never will. I've only used FilmRenew and Vitafilm (original, I have no idea how the new product is.)

To get somewhat valid opinions on FilmGuard, one needs to avoid forums owned by its producers. Anyone who isn't a fanboy of FG gets shouted down.

Regarding lubrication, I have found that some finicky projectors require frequent application on films to run smoothly. The real solution is to fix the projector. I say "fix" rather than "replace", since I have had 2 Elmo ST-1200HDs, and one was finicky, and the other (my current one in use) is not. For the former, it was a mis-aligment of the claw in the gate. It also had some wow and flutter on some prints, and I could actually see the film bouncing up and down before entering the sound head. The print that exhibited the wow and flutter ran fine in my other Elmo ST-1200HD. I never did thoroughly fix the problematic Elmo, since I messed it up in trying to align the claw. It is still fixable, but I haven't had the patience in the last 15 years to address it!

If you had a squeaky gate(garden) and used some sort of penetrative oil such as WD40 it solves the squeak for some time but eventually the squeak will return, could be years but could also be months, same with film I guess.

That is a very good point that Thomas made,it was designed for 35mm film so really the prints do have a short run time, so not really long term use, at the end of the day you'll know when to apply it on your films, Mark

That is a good point, I think many collectors do forget that it was originally for 35mm, (including me).

Lasts for years 📽📽🤣🤣

I think the other point about FilmGuard is that it should be used with a cleaning machine to control the proper amount applied to the film.

I have seen pics of cleaning machines that hook up right to the projector and provide a steady supply of cleaner/lubricant to the film before it enters the projector. I do think that is overkill and borders on OCD.

I've said it before, but there is something about the Elmo ST-1200HD that attracts dirt to film, or perhaps it is just very hard on film and causes it to shed emulsion dust. After every 400 foot reel, I clean the path and there is plenty of dust on the gate and the film guide right before the take-up reel. If I don't clean the gate, there is noticable dust projected on the screen at the edges. This does not happen with any of my others projecors, even with the same film.

For a simple clean without lubrication, Goo-Gone works very well. I mostly use it to clean tape residue off film for new purchases -- usually films that probably haven't been watched in ages where the last owner taped the ends down and put it on the shelf. I only store my films taped down if they are on open reels without cans -- which is how I store all my 16mm films to let them breathe and stave off any possible chance of VS. For Super 8 and Standard 8mm, I use either cans or boxes, depending on how I received them. For multi-reel features in single boxes, I still don't tape the ends down, since they only get tangled up if being shipped somewhere. As with any cleaner, Goo-Gone smells terrible, and I don't look forward to using it just to clean tape residue off films.

Other film cleaners were/are about Peter for home use over the years, application to the film has always been the same using a cloth unless finances allow for a machine of sorts, Filmguard is no different, they also all dry out as the solvent evaporates, as probably with all cleaners/lubricants we at first put too much on, you do eventually get it right with less cleaner, trial and error like most things,Mark

I'm a little confused what you meant about "Peter."

Sorry Thomas, I meant to put Thomas,Mark

OK, thanks.

Since FG was designed for 35mm theaters, they almost certainly would have had cleaning machines in those theaters. I've heard so many hobbyists who use FG guard complain of "blotches" on the screen when first projected (which apparently disappears on subsequent runs), which to my understanding is caused by uneven application of the product, which would me mitigated by using a film-cleaning machine.

I have never had any issues with "blotching" when using Film Renew.

In the 50s, in a first-run cinema, we applied wax to the perforations of green prints just arrived from the labs.

The blotches on the film are caused by excess application of filmguard ,but having worked in cinemas and used filmguard only with a cloth to apply ,certainly no apparatus to apply attached to the machines quite simply one gets used to using the right amount and that is sparingly.
I have not had any problems with my 16/8mm films ,I think it's down to inexperience of some user who smother the prints as if the residue will magically disappear.
Just my take on filmguard.

Referring to above regarding waxing prints.
Click below to see a 16mm version of the Rigby Premier Film Waxer.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kevp/33946...ool-677509@N22/

It was Kevin Brown who told me that he has never used a liquid to clean a 16mm print, the exception would be if the film was in one heck a mess. As Maurice said, Kevin explained that 16mm films would have been cleaned/coated professionally, and filmgurd in particular, would remove the costing and replace it it with a greasy looking mess which will show up as blobs on screen.

Like Maurice, over the years I think I've got it about right now as all the liquid marks/blobs are long gone.