I was looking through some of the 16mm film reviews on here and saw a similarity to something I asked on another forum. I've purchased a few films that were mentioned as being B&W prints of color features. The very little feedback I got was that the films were struck in B&W for television stations that didn't broadcast in color at the time. Could that be the reason for a B&W copy or could they be some kind of dupe print? The prints I have that were supposedly first in color do have excellent focus and white levels so they look very professionally made. Could these have been made for the broadcast market or just good dupes? And no, none of them have a network tag on the film although one of them is reeled onto CBS plastic marked reels.

I have heard the same explanation, that the TV stations used them at the time they didn't have color. It makes sense to me, although the dupe explanation is a possibility too.

16mm b/w prints of colour were also available in the uk for rental at a cheaper price.

When I did 16mm mobile in the 50s all colour films were supplied in black & white for mobile use to cut down the rental cost. Mobile operators were a great source of income for the 16mm film libraries in those days. The prints often had the words "Color by Technicolor" blacked over. Their catalogues advertised either Technicolor or Kodachrome colour copies in addition to the black & white copies for hire if required by any user but, of course, the colour prints were more expensive.

As regards television, it's quite true that in the good old days of black & white TV there was no point in them paying extra for the use of colour prints.

Maurice, i have to say that every post you put up is always a great read and an excellent learning curve for me and many others.

Tom
Thank you so much for the very kind comment. I am now 85 years old and have an active memory of all events associated with my long movie history.
I always try to help.

blimy Maurice, whatever it is you drink i'll have a pint.

Erik,
Thought you might like to see a couple of entries in a 1979 film catalogue showing the various versions of films on offer.



Sorry the pictures are not brilliant ,but it shows that you could have hired either a standard,scope and a black and white version of the film,just depended on what you wanted to pay.

A friend gave me a few catalouges for 16mm and i was surprised how many colour film titles were availible in b/w. At first i wondered what the point was but now, reading here, i have a better understanding.

Excellent information from everyone. I don't tbink one of the prints I have is from a catalog but meant for broadcast as it still has the "filmed in Technicolor" logo attatched and unblemished. Still it's in B&W but excellent focus and sound quality (Dual VA stripe). Thanks everyone for the info.

I can say from personal experience as a seller that 16mm black and white of color prints can be very hard to sell and do not bring a great deal of $$$. One of my favorite westerns is THE COMANCHEROS with John Wayne. My first print was a mint B/W print - much later found a mint LPP Color print so no need of the B/W print anymore. Took forever to sell the B/W print and even tho it was in mint condition did not even bring close to what I paid for it. I had the same experience with a couple other titles I wanted where I first bought B/W prints (only because I could find nothing better) and later obtained LPP prints. Saying that a few months ago I purchased another B/W of color print of a most wanted film, KANSAS PACIFIC, since I've done that I'm sure a LPP print will now turn up!! Only this time I did not pay a great deal for the B/W print.

I have had episodes on 16mm in B&W of THE FLINTSTONES and I had assumed they were made for TV stations that only broadcast B&W. Never thought about the rental side of it.

What Bill said is something I mentioned in my post 'The Difference between UK and US Sellers'. In the UK, you will pay the same price for a B&W print of a colour film, as you would for a film that was originally made in B&W. I don't have a problem with those B&W prints, as until I was in my 30s, we only had B&W TV. Some B&W prints of colour prints can be on the grey side, but others can have normal contrast.

I would much prefer a good black & white print to an inferior, and faded, colour print. I love old musicals and so does a friend of mine. Many years ago he was a subscriber to "The Big Reel" a monthly "newspaper" which had many ads with 16mm films for sale in the US.

There was a period when television stations were selling off their b/w prints as they took on colour copies. My friend bought several well known musicals. Many years passed and the colour copies eventually came on sale. My friend took the advantage of colour prints of his b/w copies. Eventually, he offered to sell me the b/w copies.

This way I added to my collection the following musicals:-

"The Best Things In Life Are Free" 1956
"Cover Girl" 1944
"Pal Joey" 1957
"The Seven Little Foys" 1955

I still have all of these. I wonder if my friend's colour copies have still got good colour?

I agree with Maurice that the contrast of the B/W prints I've had was excellent and I would much rather have a good B/W print than a faded color print. Some titles you can never find in LPP - WESTERN UNION or CARSON CITY for example. I'm just more careful now as to the $$$ I will pay for a B/W of color print.

I have a few TV episodes from the 1960's that are B&W of color, and these were much cheaper than if a later LPP print of the same show were offered. These B&W prints are actually very nice--sharp, and with rich density. I guess those of us over a certain age can remember actually watching shows on a B&W television set....

When I was a kid in the 1970's we had a color set in the living room but in my room I had a small 13" (I think) B&W TV. Despite having the color set close by I did watch my little B&W TV most of the time....so I was used to seeing everything in B&W....so I really don't mind B&W prints of movies or TV shows. They usually look great!

allways been happy with b/w of colour prints, just my penny worth

again much prefer B/W than a red print. although as stated. some can be grey looking. but what a choice of titles there are.

On 8mm, the film that started my Brother collecting in the early 70s, the defiant Virginian was released as a b/w silent 50ft edition.
Years later, and on super 8, Castle films also released two 200ft b/w extracts of a glorious technicolour film, "Shenendoah", the two extracts were The defiant Virginian and The Reluctant rebel. These were only ever released as b/w extracts and the image is very good on both as well as first class sound. It is a shame they were never released as colour extracts but thinking about today, most Castle films with colour have now faded, i suspect these two all action releases have had a great escape. Still as good as the day we bought them and of course, as you say, they will never have the fade problem.

Wow, best information I've had for awhile. The print I have was in Cinicolor but is B&W now and has brilliant contrast. After reseach it came from CBS broadcasting and is editeded slightly for use on the network. The title is Stage Struck. It still has the Cinicolor lable but is B&W. Still it looks great just wondered why it was in B&W