Well, everyone in our super 8 hobby must of this great movie with Dustin Hoffman, Laurence Olivier and Roy Schieder. Another great title from The Marketing people and this one isn't too badly edited but, there is one stupid edit where Roy Scheiders character is attacked at the beginning, the result of the fight is that Shieder breaks the back of the attacker, in this version you see him pulling on his neck but for some reason theirs about 2 seconds cut when he cracks his neck, one second hes in position, the next moment the guy is on the floor, why do they do this????
However, this is a fair edit to a brilliant thriller, Like most marketing prints this one on reel one seems to have only the lightest of fade with the film in generally very good colour. This is my second print as my first one, (now sold on), did suffer much more with fade but also reel three appeared to be very soft and green. Took me years to find one this much better than average. The sound is excellent and image is very good but its one of those pain in the backside ones to focus, its good but not quite pin sharp if you know what i mean.
Anyway, here is the plot edited for this version,
Thomas "Babe" Levy is a history Ph.D. candidate and marathon runner researching the same field as his father, who committed suicide after being investigated during the Joseph McCarthyera. Babe's brother, Henry, known as "Doc", poses as an oil company executive but is actually a government agent working for a secret agency headed by Peter Janeway.
When the brother of a Nazi war criminal is killed in a traffic accident, (NOT SHOWN IN THIS VERSION BUT MENTIONED IN REEL TWO) Doc suspects that the criminal, Dr. Christian Szell, will come to New York to retrieve a valuable diamond collection. Doc comes to New York under the guise of a visit to Babe. Meanwhile, Babe and his new girlfriend, Elsa Opel, who claims to be from Switzerland, are mugged by two men dressed in suits. When Doc takes Babe and Elsa to lunch, he tricks Elsa into revealing that she has been lying to Babe about her background. Though Doc suspects she may be connected to Szell, he tells Babe that she is seeking an American husband so that she can become a U.S. citizen. After Szell arrives in America, Doc confronts him stating he is not welcome in the country. Szell accepts the pronouncement, but then stabs Doc with a blade concealed in his sleeve. Doc makes it back to Babe's apartment and dies.
Government agents led by Janeway arrive. Janeway asks Babe what Doc told him before he died, and tells Babe that his brother was a U.S. government agent. Babe insists that his brother did not tell him anything, but Janeway is convinced Doc would not have struggled all the way to Babe's apartment without giving him vital information.
Babe is later abducted from his apartment by the two men who mugged him in the park, and he is tortured by Szell. During his torture, Babe is repeatedly asked "Is it safe?", but he continues to deny any knowledge. Babe is then rescued by Janeway, who explains that Szell is in America to sell off a large cache of diamonds which he had taken from Jews killed at Auschwitz. Janeway presses Babe about Doc's dying words, but Babe still insists he knows nothing. Frustrated, Janeway reveals himself as a double agent and returns Babe to Szell hide out,. Babe eventually escapes, aided by his skills as a marathon runner.
Babe phones Elsa, who agrees to meet him with a car. Arriving at a country home, Babe guesses that Elsa has set him up, forcing her to confess that the home was owned by Szell's deceased brother. Janeway and Szell's men arrive, but Babe takes Elsa hostage. Janeway kills Szell's men and offers to let Babe kill Szell in revenge for Doc's death, Babe agrees, but as he leaves, Janeway tries to shoot Babe, but kills Elsa instead. Babe then shoots Janeway.
Szell retrieves his diamonds but, as he attempts to leave, Babe forces him at gunpoint into Central Park. Babe tells Szell he can keep as many diamonds as he can swallow. Szell initially refuses, and Babe begins throwing the diamonds into the water. Szell relents and swallows one diamond, but then refuses to cooperate further. Babe throws the rest of the diamonds down the steps towards the water; Szell dives for them, but stumbles, and falls on his own knife blade. Babe heads out into Central Park, stopping to throw his gun into the reservoir.

I've never seen this film on TV. The image looks good. I know what you mean about focussing; I've had some where you think a slight turn of the focussing knob will improve the picture, and it starts going the other way. It gets in the way of enjoying the film, because you spend so much time trying to get the picture sharp. That looks pretty good though Tom, and colour is acceptable.

I did strike lucky with this one, its all on the usual 1 x 800 but this one is actually a tad too full. This was on the first batch of marketing releases so the colour has help up quite well.
The feature does have a lot more at the start, this version is a good 20 minutes /half hour into the full film.

Its a superb Marketing cut down is this one and one of my own personal all time favourites.

They are nearly all now showing some signs of fade but it can never spoil the suspense of the storyline on this one. A brilliant film and once again, Laurence Olivier at his very best!

"Is It Safe?"

Tom,

Thanks for posting the pics and the review! This is a great movie and would like to have it in Super 8 at some point.
I was going to "TOP" these (and other) postings but I do not see links for the buttons to do so?

Is this just me or are they missing for others here as well?

They should be there for you Greg. All are still present on my own web page, and seemingly many many others judging by Tom's Birthday well wishes! 😊

Thanks, Greg, looks like you can post and read both normal forum and Yak section. Seems to work now

I need to get my feature watched again soon. Been a few years now. Good film, The Marathon Man

Thanks Greg, i had that earlier, may be just a little clitch i think, mines all back.
Keep an eye on the lists Greg, this one does come up now and again. I cant remember who it was now but someone on here does have the full feature.
Would love an IB tech 16 copy,

Vidar, for one!😂😂

It'd be lovely Tom as an IB Tech print. It's such a good film, all prints on whichever gauge should have this one to offer in full vibrant colour still.
It deserves to be viewed at its very very best.

Robert, I couldn’t agree with you more regarding the focusing issue. It really gets in the way of enjoying a film. Unfortunately, I’ve found this to be the rule, not the exception, with Super 8 prints across a whole host of projectors. (Not so much with 16mm, though, in my experience.)

After over four decades in the hobby, I’d rather sit back and actually watch the film, not constantly focus and tinker with the projector during the show.

What machines have you been used to using for Super 8mm viewing John?
And what lenses, just as importantly?

I have to say, Tom's screen shots above look just fine to my own eyesight for sharpness.

Eumigs (800 series), Elmos (ST-1200), and Kodaks (when I was just starting in the hobby), and 1.1, 1.3, etc., lenses.

Also, I have a friend who has a GS-1200, and he is CONSTANTLY adjusting the focus, so my experience is that it cuts across all makes and models of projectors — from the low end to the high end.

When I get my GS-1200 focused, it stay focused. But, my eyesight makes it difficult to hit the right spot, sadly

Mine is the Eumig 800 series. I sometimes have had that with 16mm but it's much rarer. It's the print, not the projector, as I'm using a prime lens for the 16mm. Recently I got a copy of the Derann digest 'The Sea Hawk' from Hugh, and my first thought on viewing it was that it looked as good as 16mm.

I cannot agree John sadly until you have sampled the rear sprung gate approach.

There are one or two German and French models that offer this facility with exceptional lenses to suit also..

May I suggest, very very respectfully, there is much to sample before a sweeping statement becomes the bible on this subject.

I have to say, sharpness is never an issue on 8 for myself now unless I'm looking at at an occasional poor printed scope later film which there are one or two, but not too many.

Otherwise, set it once, set it for the full reel.

Razor Sharp throughout.

I'm sure you won't be convinced, but I've tried them all now aside of the Fumeo and trust me, near projection perfection on Super 8mm does exist if you are prepared to follow it long and hard enough

Otherwise, I'd have been out of here a very long time ago now!

Thanks Andrew, but after 45-plus years in the hobby with a slew of projectors of different makes and models and lenses. I think that qualifies to make such a statement in terms of my experience, with all due respect. Call me crazy, but I don’t believe one should have to stand on one’s head to expect a stable, focused picture throughout an entire screening. I don’t think that’s asking too much, particularly given the expense associated with the hobby.

John, I just think you've been previously restricted by geography only.
Talk with Alan Rik or Alan Gougar etc, they may instil new belief in you regarding Super 8mm collecting, even if I may never.

Projection perfection is out there!

I'd never had still been here otherwise. Why would I while ever a Pt -At6000 can look so amazing with Blu Ray and a newish lamp?

Thanks Andrew — I’m not getting any younger, so I tend to be a stickler on things that today’s technology affords, as well as my professional experience across all formats. Something as simple as expecting a stable focused picture shouldn’t be a crazy ask, particularly considering the expense associated with this hobby, but after many decades of collecting films, I now know male pattern baldness isn’t the real reason I lost my hair! 😀

One thing ive never owned in our collections are the 400ft versions of marketing films. Does anyone on here know if these contained any footage thats not in there 3 x 400 versions?

Hang on, i telling porkies here, we do have the 400ft version of One eyed Jacks but i havnt seen the 3 x 400 so i cant tell on this. And many years ago i did have the 400ft version of war of the worlds and When worlds collide, no extra footage in these, come to think of it, years ago i had the 400ft version of the Godfather, jeeeezzz what a moron, forget i asked

Sometimes you find that when you put a 2nd or 3rd spool on of the same feature, you have to adjust the focus slightly. I would think we have all had that situation. Andrew, I'm also projecting prints from the 70s to about 1984; you would probably say that the quality improved a lot after this date. I always found DCR and Walton sharp throughout, but it was the other brands that were the problem.

In many instances the focussing mechanisms themselves didn't help.
A good number of machines I've seen or used, had a scroll arrangement for the focussing mechanism that simply contained far too much backlash.

In turn you find yourself consistently chasing the "sweet spot" of perfect focus on a standard front sprung pressure plate design and by fitting better lenses to them only compounds the issue as the depth of field on these better lenses with the lower f numbers becomes unbelievably shallow.

Using these kind of lenses, ideally you need to be able to adjust the focussing mechanism by finite increments. This is something that is really difficult to achieve using the traditional scroll design focussing mechanisms.

One of the problems in the marketing era and the Derann 2 x400s is that they were designed to be able to be ordered either as a set or you could buy just one or two reels at a time, you didn't even have to buy the set. If you only wanted the first reel of a 3 x400 you could simply order it and leave it at that.
In my mind that could be a possible cause of this, the worst for me was those UA 2 x 400 from Derann, we recently sold off rollerball due to it being edited in the correct order, BUT, the two reels were clearly different film stocks ordered a different times, one was faded the other was perfect, as it had to edited in order the film was constantly different sound levels and different focus levels and also different frame lines, for me that just wasn't an option, it was sold after one viewing.
As per my first entry in this thread our first print of Marathon man was purchased together as a set second hand, unfortunately the previous owner must have bought parts 1 and 2 and 3 from somewhere else or a different time, the first two parts were very good but part three was literally green tinted and soft, God knows how this one got out like this, who was the looney first owner who accepted it? Unless it was sold like it for a very cheap price. It took me a long time to get a good copy of t his title to replace the whole lot,

I have Superman on a 1x 1200 ft spool which is 3x 400ft cut down plus parts of the 1x400ft version from the same company which released it.

While the colour and image are pretty much identical, it is let down slightly by the sound levels being very different from one another plus the framing is slightly different between the inserted sections from the 1x400ft cut down and those of the 3x400ft cut down.
It can spoil films joined together can this and even separate parts from feature films printed at the same time can require framing adjustment as the parts splice over from one to the other when joined together.

Still these are all traits of film that keep it a tactile sport for the projectionist and showman and keep it apart from modern day projection methods where the projectionist is simply part of the audience.

we also have that title with all the extras as well, exactly the same differences to, a pity as this one is otherwise a good un, same also with superman 2, ours has the full pre title and full title sequence and the diner addition, the additions are lower in volume, image is ok though.

I have S2 also with all of the extras inserted into it Tom, but I hadn't previously picked up on sound differences on that one or The Sound Of Music for that matter, but to be fair, it is quite some time now since I last viewed S2.