Just wanted to ask you 16mm die hards an opinion please.

This is a question i have asked on the other channel so same here please,
I know it sounds like another "whats your favourite" bore but let me explain. As you may know we have recently got into the beginnings of collecting 16mm and really beginning to enjoy it. I have,in the past,had a b&H TQ2 specialist but got rid of it due to a fault.we currently use an elfnt1 which we like very much and have bought two lenses for it and a scope bracket. I like this unit as it is easy to service and spares are relatively easy to get.
My reason for asking you all what you consider to be a good 16mm projector is simply because next year we are going to attend Blackpool and will be moving bits and pieces on to raise funds to treat ourselves up. One of the things i will be looking at picking up is another 16mm unit. I have seen so many out there.elf,b&h,Bauer,elmo to name a few but some of the really good ones look fab but if they go wrong can the average bloke fix it himself like the Eki's. Are there better eiki's? Maybe a three claw one and which ones can i put through an amp.
I wont buy one via the postal service due to a bad experience both for me and seller. They are just thrown around so Blackpool will be our best bet. This year we are going away so couldn't do it this year.

I dont want to get into putting any models down i simply would like the opinions of you 16 collectors of many years and those of you who have worked in the industry.
Thanks in advance.

Tom, why if you have an Elf NT1 which you really like (as you say) and you find easy to service and obtain parts for, do you then wish to seek another different machine?

Is there something more that other machines could bring to the table perhaps?

I would always choose the Elmo 16-CL, the slot load is fantastically easy. Been serving me some 5 years, no trouble. Changed a couple of bulbs, both optical one and the 250W ones. Not scratched any of my films, but the scratching problem is perhaps only the Super 8 Elmos?

It's a funny thing is the opinion on Slot Loading machines. I read great comments regarding them from some like yourself here Vidar, then others seem to hate them.
I suppose it's like nearly all else in this hobby of ours maybe, where no single one solution, suits all apparently?

The NT1 is a good machine but i dont seem to be able to link it to a basic stereo amp. Also, the one we have, whilst working fine at the moment could cause a few problems sooner rather than later i think.
I have it working good at present but i think its seen a lot of footage. Always good to have a backup.

How easy is it to remove a film half way through the reel on a Bauer P7? Sure, cut it and splice it, but not with a slot load. I love it, even if the rest of the world hates it

I have both a manual Bell & Howell, and a Elmo 16-CL slot load. I love the slot load. It's so easy. I have never damaged any film on it either, but that has happened a few times on the manual (I guess that is something I will learn how to handle eventually). I do have had problems with my 16-CL, though, with things like take up reels handling big reels and the sound that has dropped off at times. Apart from that I love the machine.

The Elmo CL-16 works fine when it is set up correctly, but the single control knob has a lot of linkages to operate for load and run functions. It's hardly a projector that the average user can service.
Certainly, Tom should keep to an Elf as he knows all about the one he already owns.

I must admit, a manual lace machine would never appeal to me on any gauge I would be into, but again, to some, they prefer them to all others!
As said, i guess it is a case of One Man's Pill.... all over again.

I seem to remember telling Tom how to use a three-ring jack plug to get an output for an amplifier from his Elf.

Yes I think I read that one Maurice. Didn't you say you leave the tip of the plug out of the equation so far as the connection is concerned?
It has to be a Stereo plug also I think I read?

A stereo quarter-inch jack plug has three rings for obvious reasons.
Yes, the tip of the plug is ignored for the audio out to an amp. It is used in the standard jack output for an external speaker, hence the different wiring and connections.

I guess to answer this here for Tom from all other 16mm users, a list of his "must have" features must be compiled to narrow down the search to just the right machines to fit the bill for him.

For example, which of these are priorities ? ...

1/ Optical / Magnetic Sound facility or just Optical?
2/ Manual, Auto thread or Slot Load?
3/ Reel Capacity?
4/ Audio output size and capabilities for slaving etc?
5/ Recording facility needed or not?
6/ Xenon or Halogen?
7/Ease of obtaining spare parts and availability?
8/ Age of machine?
9/ Build Quality?
10/ Portable only or maybe Pedestal?
11/ Machine Noise levels?
12/ Maximum outlay?

Maurice,, Ehhh? (sorry im hopeless at the electronics side of things)

Well Andy, Halogen is fine for me, Optical only is ok, 2200ft spool capacity is fine, dont need any recording facility, have to say i am happy with auto thread although the NT1 can do both, (cant see the point of manual if it auto loads though),

I will allow Maurice to answer this one for you of course Tom, but if not for whatever reason, I can draw a diagram of the Jack Plug connection to your amplifier here if you like?

Do you want it going to two phono (RCA) plugs for inputting to your amp?
Obviously they will both be carrying the exact same signal split into two but at least you will get audio out through both speakers via your Pioneer Stereo amplifier.
Signal input may be a little too high also (distorted) unless your PJ has an earphone jack?

Alternatively, you may get away with using a mixer through the "Aux" input on it before then sending a set of phono leads out to your amp. You can vary the signal input better this way if too high.

If the socket on your PJ is designed for using as an extension speaker output point, this is sending out a signal at Line Levels. (high output level for inputting elsewhere ordinarily)

There are some professional amplifiers that can handle Line Level Inputs (usually marked with a red band), but this won't apply to hi fi equipment ordinarily.

I have both Eli and Fumeo 16mm machines,both capable of attaching to my long play systems.I find the Eki easier to thread but the fumeo is quieter.Its a personal thing but regardless of what type of machine it is I only thread manually,I guess that is my preference having worked with 35mm.I like to be sure the film is in the gate properly and loops are to my liking.The other thing is I like to know that the machines have at least during my ownership have only run forward,and not used to rewind.I know this is all personal things,but as regards the Eli/Elf machines they are easy to work on.I know some say the B an H are great but It's down to each to know what works best for them.
Of course as Andrew says it also very much depends on how much you are prepared to pay,my fumeos (8and16)came at the right time at the right price but I feel it really is down to each one to decide what your priorities are.With that in mind I always wanted long play ,and I now have that capability in all formats regardless of what machine I use,but it has taken patience and a few 'bob' to get there.
Sorry I know this does not give a firm answer but as I say down to the individual.😁😁📽📽

The Elf projector in question does not have a separate output connection for an amplifier. It uses the standard 1/4" jack socket into which its external speakers are normally connected.
So, a three-ring (stereo) jack plug is used. But, only two connections are made. The end ring is ignored.
Here is a link for such a plug available from Maplins.
https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/stereo-jack-p...ole-black-a76qt

But as said though Maurice, this will therefore be at Line Level as an output and way too high to input into a hi fi stereo amplifier directly via Phono plugs.
I think either a mixer must be used (even then with care with the levels), or an amplifier which can accept Line Level inputs, to keep the input at the correct levels to the adjoining separate amplifier.

Ideally, the PJ needs an earphone socket or some form of pre-amp outputs, which apparently it doesn't have unfortunately.

Obviously, the Elf projector outputs were designed many rears ago, before stereo amps became in common use.

What models have an earphone socket or pre-amp outputs Maurice?
I think I've seen some of the later Bauer 16mm projectors with these but are there others?

Is this even a common feature among 16mm machines?

Does the Elmo CL Slot Loader have any external sockets for example or the Fumeo models perhaps?

Without opening all my cupboards and hauling out my 16mm projectors I can't really answer this question as it's something that has never interested me. However, quite a few 16mm projectors do have sockets for inputs, particularly my recording projectors, but these do not earphone sockets, recording level is by meters.

Thank you to everyone for a good response. I will be experimenting soon, hopefully i wont damage my amp or the projectors.