Quote: Tom Photiou wrote in post #3
We do have a couple of Standard 8 L&H films, County Hospital, Thicker than water which was the last two-reel comedy from L&H as Hal Roach decided to end the short films and move them solely into feature films. And we also have a STD 8 400ft version of Midnight patrol.
I do agree that standard 8 films generally had a very good image on the b/w films, one of our first films was a Walton STD 8 edition of the Music box which was abridged to 400ft. It was years later before we got hold of a full length 600ft print on super 8.
The only L&H films I have in standard 8 are some of the silents. I don't know how Standard 8mm sound compares to Super 8 sound for Blackhawk L&Hs.
I posted a link here awhile ago to an old Blackhawk catalog about how they made their prints, but it didn't shed any light on why 16mm L&Hs might be better than Super 8. Of course, all else being equal, a 16mm print should and will look better than Super 8, but there is a difference between looking better because of the larger frame size of the film gauge as opposed to looking better because the lower gauge looks dupey.
COUNTY HOSPITAL is another Super 8 Blackhawk L&H that really shows how good Super 8 can be for these shorts. That and PERFECT DAY are similar outstanding quality to the 3 Stooges shorts Columbia released in Super 8 sound -- especially the ones with Curly. If I had the projector in a booth, I doubt you would be able to tell if those 3 Stooges shorts were Super 8 or 16mm.
My Super 8 Blackhawk print of THICKER THAN WATER has all original Hal Roach/M-G-M titles! I don't know how that one slipped by. Since I've never seen another one like that for sale, my guess is that it was an answer print. What's puzzling is that it came in a pink Blackhawk L&H box, properly labeled with the film's title (but anyone could have put it in that box), and the leaders are fully marked as usual for a Blackhawk print -- which I would guess wouldn't have been created until after the answer print was approved -- but I'm merely guessing. I got it pre-ebay -- I think from The Big Reel, if anyone remembers that publication. The film had lots of wear when I got it in the form of black lines -- but nothing too terrible. On the whole, it is an average print as far as Blackhawk L&H shorts go.
It's a shame that Roach shut down his shorts unit in 1936, with the exception of Our Gang, where he actually shortened the shorts to one-reelers. For some reason, he cut short the L&H shorts a bit earlier, in 1935. Our Gang continued with two-reelers until after the summer break of 1936. Charley Chase two-reelers lasted until that summer as well, and then he was flat out fired -- but shortly after he was hired by Columbia to make a series of shorts, which he did right up until his untimely death at the early age of 47. He also directed a handful of 3 Stooges shorts while at Columbia.
Our Gang of course was sold to M-G-M midway though 1938, where it took an almost immediate nose dive in quality. The shorts apparently were profitable, since M-G-M continued to make them until 1944. I've only seen a small % of the M-G-Ms, and even the few that have a good reputation I didn't find nearly as good as an average Hal Roach one-reeler. It seems that M-G-M used Roach's THE AWFUL TOOTH as a model short! (Unless you've seen THE AWFUL TOOTH and at least one of the M-G-Ms, you will have no idea what I'm talking about!)
THICKER THAN WATER was actually filmed after BONNIE SCOTLAND, which is generally considered to be the kickoff of L&H's feature-only career. Retakes for BONNE SCOTLAND were filmed after THICKER THAN WATER was completed, and released only a few weeks after THICKER THAN WATER.
I have always found it interesting that L&H's feature output was so low once the shorts ended. If you look at their starring feature career by year in the 30s for Roach, you have:
1931. 1 feature
1932. 1 feature
1933. 2 features
1934. 1 feature
1935. 1 feature
1936. 2 features
1937. 1 feature
1938. 2 features
1939. No features for Roach (contract issues, they made 1 independent feature)
1940. 1 streamliner (for U.S. release, in Europe it was a full feature), 1 feature
IMO, they should have continued with shorts in between the seldom made features. But what do I know?
THE MUSIC BOX is another excellent quality Blackhawk print. Mine was purchased in 1974. I have heard people say that their particular prints are not so good, but I don't know from what era of Blackhawk they were printed. I'm curious what Walton cut out from their print.
As I mentioned, I have minimal experience with Walton prints. The only L&H title I have is THE FLYING DEUCES (slightly abridged). My current copy is excellent, but I had one that was printed too light with washed-out faces. I don't think that Walton made the edits; according to THE LAUREL AND HARDY ENCYCLOPEDIA by Glenn Mitchell, even U.K TV prints contain the same edits. He doesn't mention Walton by name, but does say U.K. 8mm prints. His description of the cuts match what the Walton prints have.
The best looking silent L&H I have is a Standard 8mm print from Blackhawk of PUTTING PANTS ON PHILLIP. I could fool you into thinking that this was a 16mm print. It is even better than my Super 8 Blackhawk print of that title, which is printed just a hair light.