I have loads of spares in stock for elf's and bell and Howells I have over 100 projectors elf's ,dansons ,debries and many more makes as well and modern and rare lamps

David, i will be in touch for a part or two later mate,
Well, evening number three, i continue with what is turning into a clean up and re lube session before moving onto the cam tank next. To get right into the machine i removed the amplifier which on these models has to be one of the easiest ever, all you need to do is take off the volume, bass and treble knobs from the front, remove the flywheel, (already done on day one), unplug the MT 9 pin plug and the solar sound lead.Then it's simply undo the two screws each end of the amplifier and slide it gently out. I was expecting this to be covered in either mould, dirt or a mix of the two but as you can see it is actually very clean, just some surface dirt which is to be expected.
Next up was to examine all the visible linkages for the auto thread from front to back and the gears and rollers i could sort without any further removal. Everything seems to be free but sluggish so i started on the reverse take up clutch cam, simply unscrewed it was soon clear that the old grease was the problem again so i took it out & cleaned everything up, (watching out for the three fibre washers), and then re lubed lightly and put it back together along with some of the other toothed gear wheels. I will leave the take up arm gearing until later. I will need to check whats in there and how criticle the adjustments are before pulling it apart. Next i used my cleaning fluid to get into the moving parts of the linkages so i could replace the gooey grease with new. So, evening three clean up is job done, it may not look much but i was on it for two hours again so slowly, bit by bit i am getting the works cleaned up and re oiled/greased as best i can. The five cotton buds you see were solely for two of the gears, its messy!!!
Hopefully tomorrow i may make a start on the cam tank, BUT, i will only remove a few items for cleaning out and re oiling and greasing, if you take a look at the pages i have put up here from the service book regarding the tank you will all fully agree that totally dismantling this by anyone other than a qualified engineer is a no no for the likes of me. Setting it up will require the skills and experience that i for one do not have as well as any tools.
I have serviced my own cam tank and its fine but jeepers i had fun setting it up, (after some phone calls to Bill back last year), i think i removed it three times and also the lens holder and pressure pad and its springs at least 6 times to get it right. Lots of time and lots of patients is required.
Your feedback, tips,and/or criticism will be very welcome as always.

Well done Tom, you have achieved a lot already, and I can appreciate it is a slow job; not something I would want to attempt myself. There might be a time when owners are forced to do as you are.

Thanks for posting this, Tom! Keep up the good work!

Evening four,
Cam Tank service, (semi service).
Decided tonight to give the cam tank a go, i will say here and now, (as before), the cam tank should only be fully dismantled by a qualified engineer, without the correct test films and tools for setting this up could turn into a disaster which could end up damaging films, if you could get it to run properly at all, I had already gone this far once before with my main machine, i was savvy enough to ring Bill when i had got as far as i was comfortable with and he kindly advised me that this was as far as anyone need go for basic servicing.
This particular machine has the still picture capability so makes getting in just a little more tricky.
As you will see image 1 shows the Cam tank assembly removed,
Image two shows the first screw to be removed BUT before anything is removed the lever needs to be in Sill image position , in this position the pulley rotates freely,
Image three here shows something i didn't expect, part of the body appears to have a dent so you can see inside, God knows what the hell happened to this one,
Once you undo the end screw and remove the outer cap you need to gently hold onto the shutter blade while slowly raising the still image lever, this releases the tension spring allowing you to take off the shutter blade with the hub. Image 4 shows the shutter still in place but with the tension off ready to be pulled away, image 5 shows the blade, hub and end plate,
You see that washer on image 6? That is vital if its fitted as this one provides the correct clearance between the shutter pulley and the shutter blade and hub. image 7 ,(blurry!!!) shows the cam tank with the shutter and hub removed, you can see inside where the cam and bearings etc are. The plate is held on with three screws, these are removed to expose the cam and claw housing, image 8 shows the claws arm, image 9 shows the cam and the oil holder which as you can see is a little dry so this will be removed, i will clean out what i can of the old grease and oil and re do it all using my Elmo red projector oil and the synthetic grease that was recommended and used by Mr Pratchett who himself is a B & H specialist, (but repairs other 16mm machines in the states).
Images 10,11,12 show everything ready to be lubed up and oiled fresh and back together again, image 13 is the main worm gear which as you can see has had a toothbrush to get in there and cleaned it back to a nice shine, this will obviously be lubed up when i fit the assembly back into the projector.
Images 14 and 15 simply show everything back together again. For now i dont think that slight damage to the lower body will cause any problems. Image 16 is the last part to clean, the claw, Aint no way i am removing that, I've seen the measurements & what you need to do to set it up properly.
Image 17, there it is all back together, and the last image is the grease i use for this machine. I will also be getting some Molycote 33 which is also recommended by one the best.
Whats next? well, tomorrow we are viewing Dances with wolves so i will put this aside now until Sunday. I hope so far anyone looking in here is enjoying this as much as i am doing the job.

You are on a roll with this one Tom and fast becoming the next Bill Parsons! (Well nearly)

The legend that is Bill is an almost impossible act to follow!

Keep up the good work matey, you're doing a grand job and experiencing loads for your know how on these particular machines.
Bags of attention to detail which I feel is always essential with this type of work.

It is a most interesting read for people like myself who love the machinery aspect almost as much as the end result from having them in full working operational condition.

Well done Tom,another part of the machine done, looking good,Mark

Andy, i think you've just insulted Bill there
If i had just 10% of his skills id be happy, a nice compliment though chief.
If all 16 and 8mm projectors were as easy as this model to do basic serving,(very basic), then a lot more people would be able to keep there machines going without a big spend out. If this particular projector was a real no hoper of running again i would go much much deeper and dismantle everything i could but the danger of cocking something up beyond my ability to get it back together and work properly with correct adjustments is too risky. As everyone here knows all manufacturers instructions and service books always say "servicing,lubricating and repairs should only be carried out buy a qualified engineer", well, thats fine but now we are at a point where if us owners dont have a go then we could winde up with machines we can no longer use. That time draws nearer every day.
If you look at my postings on this yesterday just click on those three pages from the service book and see how many parts are in this cam tank. If i could get my hands on one should anyone have one they dont want then i would definatly have a go.

I'd never insult Bill, Tom,..he knows that and I believe you do too. Seriously though Tom, you really are doing a detailed fine job here and much of what you say here takes me me back to the fine scripts you wrote and which I admirably used to read as a late teenager from FFTC back then in the "Techy Bit" section.

You are a huge asset to our hobby Tom and I cannot imagine it without people like yourself in it. You have been there since the early days (not quite as long as Hugh, Robert & David) but nevertheless for an enormous chunk of your life now and I believe credit where credit is due here.

For detailed electronic repairs many of us now very much including myself rely solely overall on Vintage AV repair Engineers, the type that can actually design and build their very own Hi Fi gear if they so wished, there are still quite a few knocking about for servicing bespoke vintage Hi Fi equipment but of course due to their skill levels and knowledge that is in all too short supply now, they do tend to charge an arm and a leg when these guys are utilized.

I am really proficient at industrial medium tension and high tension electrics, after all that is how I served my time on an Electrical Test bed for industrial equipment, but electronic engineering is a very different matter and discipline to electrical engineering and whilst I can understand and follow a schematic electrical drawing, it does not mean I fully understand how a motor controlling I.C. works for example.

Everyone needs to pool their knowledge now to stand any chance of surviving the next 30 years while gaining the very same pleasures we have all had the luxury of enjoying.

Great job Tom! I own two Eiki's, and they're great machines. Easy to work on (engineered with the tech in mind.) Compared to my Kodak Pageants (which I love, but are beasts to service.)

all in fun there Andrew, once i found the service books to the 1200HD and hen this NT1 i just fancied having a play. ive always been fascinated by this sort of mechanical stuff, i just wish i could do the electrical stuff to go with it but that is one thing i always leave to the people who know.
As i will busy viewing films for a day or two followed by the weekend visit to to Truro i shall look at this again on Sunday evening to see whats next. Anyone looking in here please do join in a any tips or comments will be well received. The ease at uploading images on this forum make posts like these a joy to do.

Welcome back Douglas, and thank you.

Decided to continue with getting the NT1 all back together before starting on the film path side of things.
With everything removed that was necessary i finished off putting a few light drops of projector oil in the joints of the linkages. now its time to put it all back together as best i can until i can get a couple of parts i need which i will come to in a bit.
Images 1 and 2, On these machines, another annoying thing with age is is those little buttons that lock the arms in place when you open them up for a show, in my case it's the front one thats all gunged in the closed position. A simple job while everything's out, unscrew only one of the two screws but hold onto the button the other side or will ping out. Once out (image two) i just did a quick clean up with a de-greaser and then applied a light amount of my grease on the shaft and using a cotton bud just wiped a little in the shafts housing, replaced it all back in and now it operates properly and locks that arm in place with definitive click.
Image 3 shows the machine cleaned up as best as i want to get and ready for everything to go back together.
Image 4 shows the first gear cleaned up and now in place, top left and the amplifier cleaned up and put back in and connected up, two screws are all that is required for this.
Before going any further i needed to check something on my main Elf, You may recall earlier in the this thread that when i recieved this machine the reverse/play lever would not sit in the play position. When i put the second matching gear in here it wasn't right, the manual at this stage didn't make much sense to me, looking in the other projector i could see it was in fact positioned completely wrong.
After some confusion on my part i had to completely re-adjust the play/reverse lever that sits over the first sprocket, (where the film is fed in), to ensure in the normal Play position the two white gears, (upper and lower rewind gears) were parted, in my case they wernt, so this had to be done first. I will oil and grease up the worm gear when i am ready to fire it up, much later. No where near that time yet.
Image 5 now clearly shows the Cam tank back in place, i did the two screws holding this unit in, (1 top 1 bottom), loosely so i could position it as best as possible before securing. This does not mean that's it for the cam tank as once it's ready to go it may need to be slightly moved. I will explain this much later. I then placed the red motor belt loosely in place ready for the motor,
The main belt in next, feeding this around the two rear gears, around that front top section, between the sound drum shaft and reverse drum, then its lift up that tensioner, (that is one strong spring in there), and get the belt firmly in place and release. makes sure the belt sits evenly and centrally in all the gears.
Next was to screw the motor back in place, very simple, just three screws, each one with star gripper washer and spring tension washer, two at the top, here shown and one at the bottom. Once in place simply tighten up all three screw and plug the electrical block back together. I will use a couple of small tie straps to tidy up that wiring. The capacitor was put on for me by an electrician, (my Sister in Law, she's the chief electrical engineer for the recycling plant in Cornwall, very handy).
Image 6 now shows the flywheel back on and the transformer screwed into place and connected up. BUT, i spotted that the shutter blade when i rotated the inching knob is very very close to that lower loop restorer gear, i need to loosen the cam tank to manuouver it a little to make sure its away, i looked into my main Elf for guidance and now image 7 shows where it should be.
Image 8 reminded me i had a small minor problem. When i undid the transformer, (months ago to pinch parts for my main projector), the lower screw was round off and butchered by someone before me. It was not going to come out so i had to cut the head off with a mini hacksaw, at that time it was close to being binned after i took what i needed, then i managed to get the remainder of it out with mini mole-grips so i saved the thread within the machines body, now i need to find a third screw.
Image 8 shows clearly that at some point i will need to tidy up that wiring but want to compare it to my main machine again for guidance.
Finally, image 10 shows the main front gearing all in place, spinning nice and free and all very clean again.
Now everything is back inside i need to clean up the rest of the machine but first i need a couple of spares, i require a another gate aperture, i have a complete lens holder with the pressure pad but as said, i now need to find another aperture or at least that aperture plate side spring. Without it i am knackered so i will be back on early part of next week to take out all the rollers and clean out the film path. I aint done yet!

Before I got my B&H projector I bought an Elf RT1, and all the belts needed replacing, and all the screws had been overtightened. In the end I contacted the seller, and returned it. The screws were just burring up trying to get them out, and I didn't want to risk drilling them out. He managed to sell it in the next listing.

I've received a few machines in a similar state Robert. A shame that someone would abuse such nice pieces of machinery. I picked up one Eiki strictly for parts. The poor thing looked like it had been at the bottom of a marsh for the last twenty years.

This is a very common trait of the Elmo machines I have noticed Robert. At times you need an Impact screwdriver to even stand a chance!
I think they had their robots programmed wrong and way too strong in their Electricity Light Machinery Organization at times.

Great machines but highly difficult to do work on at times, for just such reasons.

And that is why i think these Eiki NT1 machines are so very good, The ease at which they can be taken apart is almost kids play, of course there are right and wrong ways to do this but if,for example, if a single part needs replacing it is quite simple in comparison with other machines. That worm gear on the B & H is a classic example, i understand you have to dismantle half of the [projector to do it. Hopefully i have demonstrated here just what a joy this model is to work on, and when they are up and running the image and sound of the film you view is a good as any other 16mm machine, and also for the size of these things when my films run through they are certainly not over noisy, i dont need a projection booth and so far my small audiences have enjoyed all the films and not one comment about projector noise.

Yes it does appear to be a very nice machine with logical layout and decent build quality throughout Tom. Nice machine mate.

Cheers Andy.far from finished yet though.i shall continue next week. Hopefully get some more feedback here and maybe a tip or two ;-)

Pays to put a coating of Vaseline on the screws when you put them back.

It definatly does Robert.aside that one transformer screw i have to say all the other ones were fine. One of biggest problems people ignore is to use a good quality screwdriver thats the right size and sits in the head of the screw perfectly. Quite a few people "make do" and thats when they slip and round the heads. And of course a lot a screws are way over tightened.

Usually by the manufacturer's themselves in many instances. One of the drawbacks of having robots and power tools mass producing assembled goods.
If anything it should mean even greater accuracy regarding torque settings for components like set screws etc but ironically it doesn't seem to be the case very often.

I agree a good set of hand tools and even specialized tools is essential for this kind of work.

My next investment on the tooling front will be a multimeter with a frequency range built in.
It will help set my projectors running speeds precisely on the potentiometers for each with the aid of the Cresta Pulse Sync unit now and will also help verify Phil Murats excellent method of calibration of the two motor linear speed match for claw and capstan on the Beaulieu machines.

I have not abandoned this, i will be back on it week after next.

Just caught up a bit with this today, as it's now snowing its going to be a filmy day.
Gwyn very kindly let me have two aperture plates from old NT1's, i have taken the best of the two, took off what i could and gave it a clean and polish up, got it all back together, also recieved a second hand but very good lens holder to go with it. (if it's too good i will put in my main projector later), i cleaned out all the front of the machine where this fits and got it all back in, two simple screws is all that holds this lot in and as its a fixed plate no adjusting is needed.
There may be some re positioning of the cam tank needed when this is all done to make sure everything's ok and at the end i will check as best i can the claw protrusion. It's now beginning to look like an Elf again, the bulb cover took three goes at cleaning an polishing with a simple furniture polish to get the mould marks off it from previous ownership.

Well done Tom; impressed.