The ST-1200 series and of course the GS-1200 get lots of press, but relatively little is heard about the ST-800. (Little is heard about the GS-800, ST-600 and ST-180 as well, but let's stick to the ST-800.)

OK, so the ST-800 only plays and records on the main track, but as owner of a 2-track machine for almost 30 years, I've never made use of track 2 -- but that's just me.

It only plays sound in mono -- but only a handful of machines can play stereo. I don't have a single stereo film in my collection.

It can only handle up to 800 foot reels. Many of my features are mounted on 2 or more 800 foot reels.

It uses the common EFP 12 volt, 100 Watt lamp, but not many Super 8 projectors use a 15 volt, 150 Watt EFR lamp, except higher end ones like the Sankyo 800 and of course the Elmo 1200s. I find that my 800 produces a nice bright image when fitted with my f1.1 lens.

I got my ST-800 a couple of years ago. I think I paid around $100 for it. It was in rough cosmetic condition, since it was most likely stored in a garage -- there was actually dirt/soil from the ground on it. Other than that, it seemed barely used, judging from no wear on the green parts. It just needed new belts, a replacement motor pulley and a one-way wheel for the take up arm from Van Eck. (What would we do without him?)

After get it up and running, I used it for a few films that day, and then set it aside. I just pulled it out again, and it really is a great projector. It really needs to be mentioned in the same sentence as Eumigs and Sankyos for people not in need of a 1200 foot capacity projector.

I have two Thomas, both in the original boxes and in mint condition,both are little used machines, they are great little projectors, I very rarely use them these days which is a shame ,the reel capacity is fine on them but for me it's the 100w lamp that stops me using them more, with a better lens it does help things ,if I had no other machine then I'd be more than happy to use them as a main machine ,Mark

I was sold on the 150 watt lamp thing for years, but I don't notice much difference -- even with projectors with an EFP and an f1.3 lens.

I'm from the generation that was taught that the higher the wattage, the brighter the bulb. Now we know that that's not necessarily true -- lumens is a measure of brightness. While a higher wattage still might be brighter, all else being equal (halogen to halogen, incandescent to incandescent), the 150 watt EFR is not 50% brighter than the 100 watt EFP.

Another factor is pulldown speed and the shutter blade size/angle, something not often discussed.

It just seems to me that it's either the 1200 series Elmos, for large capacity, and Sankyo or Eumig for lower. The "lesser" Elmos don't get much press.

My secret it Yamawa-made projectors for standard 600 foot with EFP lamp. I think they made higher-end ones, but they are hard to find in the U.S. I still believe these were copied from Sankyo, or there was some outsourcing done.

Here's a nitpick: I found something I don't like about the ST-800 -- no "inching" knob. I use it on other machines to expose the "teeth" on the claw when I'm cleaning the gate. You can't do it on the 800 without putting it in forward and then stopping it, like playing roulette until you can stop it where they are exposed enough to clean. Oh well.

Just to be safe, I re-ran a print that I had just projected yesterday, and I didn't detect any scratches. Since I've barely used this machine, I wanted to be sure. I did notice some wear on the machine in a spot I had never checked -- a green piece, pointed to by the #2 arrow in the following pic.



Mine has a small slots where the edges of the film have dug into the plastic.

Arrow #1 is another potential part that can wear from what I have read.

Van Eck doesn't make these parts, but I've read about DIY fixes for part #2 -- inserting a roller there. There was also an infamous seller in the U.S. notorious for selling used parts as "new" (they came in a big bag from Elmo, so they must be new!) who made a similar piece for the GS-1200.

I'm now paranoid to continue using this machine, even though there are no problems now. Anyone have experience in getting better parts to replace these 2 potential "scratch" parts? Both of my parts have what appears to be enough bevel in them to prevent the image area from being scratched, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Thanks

In taking a closer look, the only part that really worries me is #2. I'm still not sure why this part is even necessary since it is after the pinch rollers, so it should not have any effect on the sound. On the ST-1200HD, there are 2 black rollers after the pinch rollers.

The other green parts on both of my machines have ridges that aren't even close to wearing out, so the part of the film with the image should still float.

I've been comparing my 1200 and 800 side by side from the front, and the chassis is the same on each. For whatever reason, the film path is a bit different. I'm not sure why, and I believe the earlier non-HD 1200s also had a different path -- I would need to look closely at pics to note the actual differences.

I'm also trying to figure out if I can remove one of the black rollers from my out-of-commission ST-1200HD and install it on the 800 in place of part #2, but it does not look like it would be a plug-and-play.

One thing that's probably obvious to everyone is how open the film path is on both of these machines. Unlike Eumigs where the film enters black holes where anything can happen, though truth be told my Eumig 810 has never put any obnoxious scratches on any of my films. I received the 810D as a birthday gift from my parents when I was a small boy in the early 70s. I used this thing practically daily until the VCR years in the early 80s which virtually killed Super 8 for us here in the states.

I never bothered to clean the path of my 810 back then, although I'm sure my dad did every now and then. I still have all my films from back then, and except for the ones scrathed by my Elmo, they all look almost as new. As I think I've mentioned before, it is ironic that when I was the biggest fuss-budget about keeping the path on a machine clean, it was when the worst scratches were made on my films. I still clean the path after every reel on all my machines, but during that old "Elmo scratch period", I was also using canned air, applying Film Renew to the gate, and often cleaning each reel with Film Renew before each viewing!

Sometime I think the Elmos were the Japanese equivalent of Montezuma's Revenge!

BTW, I discovered that you can reach behind the gate from the front and move the shutter with your fingers to expose the claw pins for cleaning.

Did I ever mention that the only other projector that did major damage to a few of my films was an Elmo? I got one of those GP series dual-8 silent machines a few years ago, and since it wasn't running up to speed, I eased the tension on the take-up reel, since it was slowing it down. Instead of the film piling up behind the projector when the tension was no longer enough, it jammed the film in the lower sprocket area, where it crumpled up. So I lost about a foot of film. And where that didn't happen, the lack of tension from the take-up reel caused it to contact the lower loop-guide-former right after the lower sprocket, causing scratches. I've never had a projector before that behaved like that when the take-up reel stopped turning.

I've since fixed the machine by removing one of the rubber pulleys (the drive mechanism is like an ST-1200: a rubber pulley against the shutter wheel), and oiling the shaft. That's all it was. Now the machine goes up to 25 fps (it has a rheostat speed control) whereas before it struggled to get past 22 fps.

Otherwise, it's an excellent machine. (Otherwise, how did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?) It has a 21 volt, 150 watt halogen EJM lamp, and it uses the same lens as the sound Elmos -- so I use my f1.1 lens in it! In fact, their "Hi-Deluxe" model came with the f1.1. lens.

Oh, those Elmos! You can't live with them, you can't throw them in the trash!

Dug one of the ST800s out and gave it a run, this machine runs like a Swiss watch, as I've said it's a little used machine in as new condition, standard lens and 100w lamp to watch the Cruel Sea feature, Mark

Cool. Have you replaced any scratch parts on it? I'm afraid to use mine anymore until I figure out how to replace that part I talked about where there should be a "snub" roller instead of a plastic piece. I'm still not sure what a "snub" roller is or what it does. Maybe "Snub" Pollard invented it?

No parts replaced Thomas as they are both like new, only belts where they had perished, it was nice to use one again and as I said before the 100w lamp is for me it's weak point,Mark

Yes, the EFP lamp does make it a notch below the 1200 models, but as I mentioned, when I put my f1.1 lens in it, it produces a nice bright image.

I'm not sure why Elmo chose to use a lesser lamp in it. In comparing the lamp enclosure and gate setup with a 1200, I don't see much of a difference that would cause a 150 watt lamp to cause an issue. Perhaps the fan isn't strong enough? It feels pretty strong to me, though.

I'm still bewildered why Elmo didn't use the same belt setup in the 1200 as in the 800. It seems to me that a rubber wheel driving the shutter would make it harder to drive 1200 feet of film -- but what do I know?