Since when are Chinon-made GAFS top-of-the-line and best-of-the-best?

I've never had a Chinon nor a GAF, but all I've heard is that if they don't eat your films, they will scratch them. Then there are always one or two people who say they've had no trouble with them.

I bring it up because there is a seller on fleabay in the U.S. selling these and other low-end brands and calling them top-of-the-line and best-of-the-best. He gets top-dollar for them, too, because he replaces the belts, lubes them, and cleans the film path. He even sells those cheapie plastic Bell & Howell dual-8 machines made when they moved on from their built-like-tank machines. He does sell some Sankyos, though, which are the only real high-end ones he has.

It makes me want to buy some GAF 3000S's and 3100S's, replace the belts and lube them, and pocket $100 or so in profit by reselling them.

Oh yea, he also claims that most people couldn't afford these "high-end" GAFs. What I've heard is, that way back when, they were priced comparitively low to target the low-end market so that most people COULD afford them.

What is also strange is that he doesn't seem to sell the actual Chinons that these are rebadges of, or any other Chinons, for that matter.

Nothing wrong with saying these are the top of the line and best of the best. It's called **SELLING**, ever heard of that word. In a similar way if you had a fruit and veg stall you could say "These are the best apples I've ever tasted". It would be down to the buyers to make their own mind up and do their research, but no one is forced into buying them.

A bit unscrupulous possibly for those without knowledge, but this goes on all the time on ebay and other online selling and nothing can be done about it. Buyer beware. But without owning one, I don't know if they are as bad as you say, particularly as the seller changes the belts, lubes and cleans them.

Graham S

I dont think there's anything special about GAFs, a lot of plastic parts to wear out. I've never owned one so I cant really comment but wasn't Chinnon a cheapie brand sold exclusively through Dixons? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Unfortunatly, the seller is aiming for the market of those who no nothing or very little about super 8 projectors.

Yes, Tom, that's what I've heard -- cheapie brand. They made at least one projector for Sears here in the U.S., too. Blackhawk sold them in their catalogs, too, which is surprising since I would have thought Blackhawk wouldn't sell junk. But then again, they also sold those Eumig 900-926 series which were a big step down from the prior Eumigs in quality.

The other channel has loads of info on Chinons and GAFs.

I agree that fully servicing them before selling is a good thing, but from what I've read, these things weren't very good even as new -- mainly because of damaging films. Some have said that some of their models were better than others, but any time someone writes that they had model X with no issues, someone else invariable says "I had a model X, and it scratched my favorite print."

Yes, "selling" is allowed, but that doesn't mean you can say Hyundai cars are "top-of-the-line" and "best-of-the-best." They just aren't. And neither are Chinons/GAFs. And even if you say it is your opinion, you can't say that "most people could not afford them." That's simply not true.

If your using eBay, then you are already using the internet. Therefore, you can google and find out all the problems with these machines. That's how I found out, lol.

I have a Chinon SS1200 and have never had a problem with it nor has it ever scratched a film, as you said Thomas others haven't been so lucky with the same model, look at high end Elmo's, they have a terrible reputation for scratching films, I also have these models, as all of us have also said though, a lot of plastic parts, if you keep an eye on them and replace when needed you shouldn't have any problems, isn't that the same for any machine? Mark

Unfortunatly, people try it on and will over play anything to make money, we see it all the time, as you said, it is up to buyers to do some research.
The biggest problem with just about every brand now is that they have all reached an age where damage to films is a risk, not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to get them serviced and repaired or have some spares.
Something I and others have often said is, you can have all the most expensive top titles in the world, but as time goes on and the projectors become much harder to find (we are a long way off from that at the moment) then collections could be useless with little or nothing to project them on, sellers of projectors like this with these descriptions, are cashing in now.

Quote: Mark Mander wrote in post #5

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I have a Chinon SS1200 and have never had a problem with it nor has it ever scratched a film, as you said Thomas others haven't been so lucky with the same model, look at high end Elmo's, they have a terrible reputation for scratching films, I also have these models, as all of us have also said though, a lot of plastic parts, if you keep an eye on them and replace when needed you shouldn't have any problems, isn't that the same for any machine? Mark

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Quote: Tom Photiou wrote in post #6

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Unfortunatly, people try it on and will over play anything to make money, we see it all the time, as you said, it is up to buyers to do some research.
The biggest problem with just about every brand now is that they have all reached an age where damage to films is a risk, not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to get them serviced and repaired or have some spares.
Something I and others have often said is, you can have all the most expensive top titles in the world, but as time goes on and the projectors become much harder to find (we are a long way off from that at the moment) then collections could be useless with little or nothing to project them on, sellers of projectors like this with these descriptions, are cashing in now.

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This story has been circulating for years and probably has very much been responsible for the reputation of Chinons being film scratchers, although the 330 model was supposedly the worst culprit: Other Projector Makes

Zitat

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The only other thing I can tell you concerns Chinon projectors, which were sold by Dixons. Derek Simmonds put a notice in Movie Maker that if you owned a Chinon projector, he would no longer hire films to you, as he pointed out, that he could sell a feature for about £40 or £45 in those days, and he was hiring a film out once to owners of Chinon projectors and they were coming back with damaged sprockets, so he was losing money. Maybe they improved over time, but I always remember that story every time I see someone mention they have just purchased a Chinon projector. Their cameras had a good reputation.

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Here someone says that his Chinon SS1200 never scratched a film:
Other Projector Makes

Zitat

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I have a Chinon SS1200 and it's never marked a film so maybe not all models are bad.

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Servicing your projectors?

Zitat

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This is my Chinon SS1200 stereo machine, it's not a service but just some routine cleaning, I've owned it for quite a few years, has the original belts and bulb and I've never taken the back off it, it's never marked a film as I always clean it well and double check everything, its had constant use but hasn't been over used, Not the easiest machine to remove a film in mid projection but can be done carefully, also like the auto stop which is a nice function.

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From what I've seen, all Chinons have similar film paths.

Here they talk about the Chinons, and in particular, the SS1200: https://mimundoensuper-8.blogspot.com/20...o-buy-good.html

Zitat

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In Japan, Chinon barely sold any product, quite the contrary than in United States or Europe, where it was marketed not only with its brand, but with many others. In England, exclusive sales were then made by almighty Dixons, the largest chain of photographic stores, until, at the end of the 1990s, Perry's Movies bought all the inventory that remained in Spain to offer to British filmmakers.

MY EXPERIENCE WITH THE CHINON SS1200.
I used the Chinon SS1200, in late 1980s, to record the sound in some family movies, until I discovered that it produced slight scratches on the film!
Thanks to its variable fine speed adjustment, I also used it to record the sound in Spanish in two Red Fox feature films from a VHS-dubbed video as a source, until I discovered with horror that the sound recorded with the SS1200, as it has narrower than usual magnetic heads, if the films are projected with another machine, you can listen to the original sound recording in the background!

It is, the Chinon SS1200, a projector that looks good on paper, but, in practice, what they have done in Chinon is to dress their well-known small very cheap models in a large way. The Chinon SS1200 reminds me of those fake Ferrari, with cheap plastic Ferrari bodies on VW Beetle chassis.
Something as simple as disassembling the lens for periodic cleaning requires watchmaker skill, including the rear on the built in screen! Given how hidden the lens is, the SS1200 cannot project anamorphic movies.
This projector is interesting only as a good example of a device that tried to popularize the Super-8 at a low price, but I could no use it with expensive and irreplaceable films.

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I think most of those quotes about the SS1200 came from me Thomas , I do like the machine and has some nice features on it,turns itself off when the film is finished, that I do like, Mark

It's also worth looking at the super 8 database to see more of the projectors that Chinon did, here,

https://super8database.com/?q=chinon&page=1

I have never owned or seen a chinon in the flesh so I cant really make a comment, Mark, am i right to assume the one you have is there top of the range?
Until I purchased my Sankyo OMS 880 I never knew much about those either, I knew the Sankyo was a decent machine having had much approval from UK 800 owners as well as Bill Parsons. As you know, Bill did fix mine up and it really is a great little machine, the only thing Sankyo never did was a 1200ft capacity version but what this machine does do, is give my 1200HD machines a break.
I will try and find out more about the GAF's and let you know my feedback, if anyone on here owns one and wouldn't mind letting us know more about them that would be appreciated.

Yes Tom the SS1200 is one of the top of the line stereo machines from Chinon, as I've said I've owned it for a long time and have a bit of a soft spot for it, in no way am I saying it's the best machine I've got or the best super 8 projector but it's been a very reliable machine and given great service.

I have Sankyos too, as I've had a few I can say as a rule they are good machines but do suffer from dry joints and sound loss, I've never used or owned GAF,Mark

Quote: Mark Mander wrote in post #9

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I think most of those quotes about the SS1200 came from me Thomas , I do like the machine and has some nice features on it,turns itself off when the film is finished, that I do like, Mark

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Quote: Tom Photiou wrote in post #10

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It's also worth looking at the super 8 database to see more of the projectors that Chinon did, here,

https://super8database.com/?q=chinon&page=1

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Quote: Mark Mander wrote in post #11

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Yes Tom the SS1200 is one of the top of the line stereo machines from Chinon, as I've said I've owned it for a long time and have a bit of a soft spot for it, in no way am I saying it's the best machine I've got or the best super 8 projector but it's been a very reliable machine and given great service.

I have Sankyos too, as I've had a few I can say as a rule they are good machines but do suffer from dry joints and sound loss, I've never used or owned GAF,Mark

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Another thing about that seller's listings -- for his sprocketless projectors like the Sanyo Dualuxes, he says how projectors with sprockets often damage film, so these projectors are the best -- yet he also sells projectors with sprockets like those GAFs and calls them top-of-the-line.


I could go on and on about annoying eBay listings I see for both projector's and films. I saw one today -- an Elmo ST-180 with an HD camcorder -- for scanning of course, and the seller says he bought it a few years ago, only used it for a few films, so it is practically "new". WRONG. The Ellmo was probably well used before the original seller modified it for telecine and bundled it with an HD camcorder.

Reminds me of the used-car salesmen -- "It was owned by an old lady who only drove it to church on Sundays."