I know Van Eck sells the green guide just under the sprocket near the rear of the machine, and I'm wondering if that's the only one on the ST-1200HD that is known for scratching. Mine is still in good shape, but you never know when these things will start to scratch. I know Van Eck sells several different green guides for the GS-1200, so is it correct to assume that he only makes the ones for both machines that have the "scratch" reputation? Also, are the ones he makes much less prone to wear? If so, I might pick up one and install it, just to be on the safe side.

I have also read over the years of people removing many of the green guides on the ST-1200 models and turning them into manual threaders. No one has gone into more detail, and the parts are certainly easy enough to remove, but obviously additional rollers would have to be installed around the machine to compensate. Easier said than done, I think, since you would not only have to source rollers, but also fabricate a way to attach them. I have enough junker machines to source from, but I'm not sure how to proceed after that. Also, my one and only manual threader, an Elmo FP standard 8 only machine, has "clips" around the sprocket that are unlocked for threading, and then locked again when threading is complete. I assume something like that would also have to be fabricated for the Elmo ST-1200.

And again, my main concern is scratching - and if Van Eck's part for the ST-1200 is much less prone to wear, I'd probably be better off just installing one and calling it a day.

Thanks

Quote: Thomas Peters wrote in post #1

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Also, my one and only manual threader, an Elmo FP standard 8 only machine, has "clips" around the sprocket that are unlocked for threading, and then locked again when threading is complete

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Had I not seen the guy load an 8mm reel, i would have sworn that was a 16mm machine. I've had no luck identifying it. Looks like at least 1200 foot capacity, too.

I can't believe I've never seen that projector before. If it wasn't 11 years old, I'd post a question there.

Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

Anyone? Anyone? Something D-O-O economics. Voodoo economics?

On this subject I can only go my own experience with my 1200HDs. I think it's common knowledge that the second sprocket green guide is the one of the problems for scratching when they wear, this was one of the reasons I bought a dozen years ago for spares, that dozen is down to five or six now, luckily all brand new for when i need them.
Another that can cause a problem is worn head pressure pads. When they wear down far enough they cause scratching to the far edge of the film. I've never bought any of the guides from Van Ek, I still dont trust the 3D printer plastics that are used although it is good that these things are available.
I'm sure there are other areas but again, we all know how old these projectors are getting now and with fewer and fewer spares around scratching may well become a bigger problem as time marches on.

Thanks Tom. I've ordered several times from Van Eck, but not for those film guides. I've bought Eumig motor mounts, and a few gears and pulleys for an Elmo ST-800. But those parts don't touch the film. They seem sturdy enough, but I agree we don't yet know how long those 3d printed green guides will last before they start to scratch like a cat in heat!

I know I covered a lot in this thread -- I'm still hoping that someone can ID that Elmo manual-threading Standard 8mm projector in the youtube vid. I'm really scratching my head on that one.

I started to talk about the ST-800 sctatch parts here: https://www.reelmagicfilmforum.com/t1038556f20-The-Elmo-ST-A-Neglected-Projector.html#msg50309



Now it seems as though the #2 arrow part in the GS-1200 is black, not green. I assume it is essentially the same, though -- hard to tell from pics.

I've found people talking about the mods to the GS-1200, and to an ST-180. The long and short of it is that on the ST-1200, they replaced the #2 arrow part with a black "snubber" roller (I believe this is imperative to be there to eliminate wow and flutter for the sound) -- so that's a fix that can be made to the ST-800 with some ingenuity. I need to figure that one out. There are pics of a mod on other machines, but the trick is finding a part from junker donor machine and attaching it properly to the ST-800. You can possibly remove arrow part #1 if you are willing to manually thread. I don't believe that is necessary once threading is done, but I could be wrong. I need to relook at my ST-1200 as well to see what is going on there.

There is also another green part between #1 and #2 right before the pinch rollers -- that's a potential source of wear, too, but on mine it looks like the side edges are raised enough right now to prevent the image area from being scratched.

Even with mods, you need to consider the fact that black pinch rollers can also wear down and potential scratch, and I know some machines have ones where the center where the image is is recessed. It seems like a no-brainer that they should have been designed that way from the start -- maybe there is a reason they weren't.

Also, if the ST-800 is converted to be a manual threader, it will be a bummer not to have that inching knob.

All I know is that after almost 30 years with these Elmos, I'm still not completely comfortable with their film safety, and I'm still trying to solve the problem.

Van Eck only seems to have one green part now for the GS-1200, and still has the one for the ST-1200. The parts for the GS-1200 also fit some of the other Elmos it says.

Maybe no one was buying the other green parts?

Maybe he should make them glow-in-the-dark!