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When ebay first came about, i was one of the first to say i didn't like it, i disliked the high prices some films were commanding and of course, what happens?
Some years later i join in, like many modern day things its either join in, or be left behind. I couldn't help read on the other channel that one collector seems to be questioning that the high prices could be blamed on "newbies".
What nonsense, when we have seen many well know collectors, one i have mentioned before, listing 400ft films with start prices of £50 or more, another long term collector even listing at a comical £5000 for a 400ft reel. It isn't newbies at all, although i am sure there are some relative novices on the bay who are hoping to cash in on a relative who has passed away and have no idea what they have. It isn't just cine film on ebay thats expensive, its almost everything. There are ridiculously high priced things in model railway items, LPs, old cassette and VHS tapes, China tea sets, the list is endless. This is the nature of ebay. It is the people who bid who are probably more stupid if they fall for an item that is over priced and under listed.
At the end of the day, and i dont really know how many times i've this before, in our hobby if a film is listed properly with raw screenshots from the print for sale with no blue tint filters used, and the start price is sensible and the seller has plenty of good feedback and puts up as good a description as possible, preferably 100% but 98/99 is still pretty good, then you are likely to do ok. Its all about common sense. I like a laugh at the funny OTT listings but equally, you cant blame any one type of person, its universal across ebay and other websites.
If your a bit dim and you bid on a film with no screenshots, or just as bad, copied and pasted images from google, with a description of, "seems good for its age but i have no means of testing", then you get what you deserve.
Outrageous prices driven by Newbies, what a load of nonsense. Its driven by selfish collectors trying to cash in on people who probably dont realise there are dealers out there and also by clowns who probably have no idea what they have but think its an antique just because its not digital.

What surprises me time after time is the price faded prints make, both 16 mm and 8 mm, mind boggling really. Not that many good super 8 prints for sale just lately, so i've switched a bit to 16 mm, and this year has been a bumper year for them for me, i guess the answer is that if its on ebay the seller wants as much as possible for it, or at least to get his money back, and for me that's where my stance would be. I remember bidding on some 8mm sound stripe from an ebayer, and won at a very good "bargain" price, he sent me an email saying i'd stolen them off him at that price, i think he was expecting it to go north, but he must have misjudged as to how many can home stripe film, or have the equipment to do so, that is as i say a "YP " your problem not an "MP " my problem...........................

i use ebay simply because it is easy to use, most of my films have done well, i have a few that didn't fetch what i was hoping but then thats the chance you take. I have had a lot more decent sales than disappointment's and all of those sales have paid for most of my new titles. Around 80% of my 16mm titles have been paid for by my 8mm sales.
This whole new idea that outrageous prices are driven by Newbies is really nonsense. Some of those very high prices for desirable titles are way above what i would pay, but there are also many collectors who are probably quite well off so therefore price is of no concern, it is what an individual is willing to pay.
I agree with you Paul, that some of the very high prices paid for a faded or fading print are insane, i just dont get that at all. I do understand some collectors are ok with fade but i also suspect those collectors we know would not pay the OTT prices they sometimes fetch. You may recall i sold a feature copy of Death Wish a few years ago. I sold it only because it was indeed fading, it was in good condition and the daytime scenes were fine but at that time i was looking at a few new titles so i needed to raise funds. The screenshots i used were, as always, raw with no gels or filters and the price i started it at was quite low. I also mentioned in the description that using a blue gel filter would improve things. I think it fetched 250 but that was purely down to what the buyer wanted to pay, he also had a lot of good feedback. Clearly it was a title he wanted. Ebay is a weird machine and i think if something actually sells way above its worth, you cant blame the seller, it is the buyer who bids and pays.
As for those who put on a blue filter for their ebay adverts, then THEY are being dishonest unless they state they have used a filter. Buyers who bid on prints with a blue hue need to be cautious and ask the question. I do think ebay are wrong not to have a listing fee depending on the start price. This would help stop some of those ridiculous high start price listings that just keep being listed over and over again.

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I saw this on another site dealing with the collection of vinyl records and the way ordinary folk are being priced out by high prices in the same way films are being sold on fleebay.It was described as”fetishising” which can mean “ to have an excessive and irrational commitment to something”……….. well I am sure this would not apply to anyone on here.
Judging by the way certain prints are selling on fleebay I would suggest it may well apply there. I do wonder if some of the buyers know exactly what they are buying or do as has been said before More money than sense.
I do think fleebay most probably does gripe collectors especially the ones who have been around a while with the way films are described and priced.I suppose it’s a sign of the times everything is getting more expensive including your electric to show the films.
Fun times.

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It for sure isn't 'newbies' bidding up these prices. I am amazed to see some of these prices, and I agree there are a number of deep-pocket (wealthy) collectors out there that will make insane bids for a print they covet. Get two or more of these 'deep-pocket' collectors going back and forth and the prices end up way over inflated.

If you look at the bidding information on "The Death Wish" ebay item: 17 bids, from only 6 different bidders. So you can already see some back and forth occurring. These same wealthy collectors are also sometimes the ones that do not bid at all and simply set up a high "snipe" bid that is computer-submitted at the last second to swoop in and win an item.

Here is a what I would consider a good example of the last second sniper action: Vintage Batman The Movie 1966 16mm 3x Film Reels Complete Feature Film w/ Case - Werbung: https://www.ebay.com/itm/165111387600
In that last few seconds there were two bids that took the price of the film from $730.00 to $2,225!! Neither of these bidders were involved in the bidding until their snipe bids were submitted.

The idea that it is newbies is completely silly for the most part. Let's get realistic here: A 'newbie" would probably be turned off very quickly by these high prices that we are seeing. High prices are great when you are the seller, not so much if you are looking to buy. But I guess all is fair IF an item is listed honestly, accurately and with supporting pictures.

It's definitely not down to newbies, basically it's down to supply and demand and bidders not knowing when to stop, we've all done it. I've sold things that have gone for way more than I thought and I've also paid more than I should have, I have a limit now and if it sells for more then that's fine with me, Mark

Yes I to have reached the point where I have a limit on buying a film and If it goes over so be it.
There are alternatives.

Agree with Mark & Gwyn, like most collectors, i have also paid way over what i should have done for a print or two in the past years of collecting. I have bought films on the spur of the moment and also projectors, i went through a faze of buying films to build up number and now i am selling to reduce numbers and concentrate more on 16mm.
As for the ebay prices, as already said, no way is it newbies, i've no idea why that thought popped into someone's head but those collectors who are well off are in the advantaged position of being able to bid until they get it. Like most people, i have a limit and if its passes that figure, im out. It's quite amazing what people seem prepared to pay for items that are readily available on blu ray and 4K. Ebay has certainly kept our film prices up and for second hand value, sadly, the dealers do lose out although from what i have learned recently, when a dealer offers a pound per 400ft reel, its no surprise why ebay is used by some. Blackpool will certainly be profitable for at least one dealer, watch what will turn up on ebay weeks or a month or so after the event. Thats sad i think as i though collectors went to these things to find bargains to add to there collections, i am sure many will be but others will use it to sell on the bay, and i for one cant blame them for that if bargains are found.

Regarding newbies on ebay, i would have thought the high prices would put them off joining the hobby.

Greg, that Batman film is nuts, i've seen other copies go for a few hundred, no doubt a good example of someone who really wanted it and was prepared to keep bidding until he or she won it. Recently, i sold a scope copy of the trailer for Men in Black, i thought it would have gone much higher than the £16 it fetched, however, it went for that price, some you win some you lose.
Unlike a certain well know Northern film convention organiser/ ebay seller who listed a batman trailer for £20, who, when i won it, refunded me within hours claiming he couldn't find it, then a week later popped screenshots up on the forum of the very trailer as a film watched last night!!!. THOSE are the sellers you need to watch out for. Obviously he didn't get what he thought he would. Those are the sellers ebay can do without. Not the newbies, that was a well known oldie and member of one of the two forums . You telling me he took screenshots for the sale, listed it and lost it? Then found it again for the forum screenshots? I even politely said "no problem, if you should find please let me know and i will pay the price i won it for". Like that was going to happen, tut tut tut

I'm sure after Blackpool ebay will be busy, I've seen films sold on there right now that were bought at the Chorleywood do recently, hopefully the trading before the doors open will leave something for collectors who travel, I guess once you've bought its up to you what you do with the films but I won't be buying to sell, let's be honest Phils stall will all be unchecked so it's Russian Roulette buying expensive titles from him, Mark

Yes i can vouch for that with the last half a dozen purchases. I do agree, when you buy its yours to do as you wish and if a good profit is what is preferred then why not. I have done it many time myself to raise funds for my own 16s. Its just a shame that such a great list of titles is only being reserved for Blackpool with the leftovers going onto the lists later so the loyal customers of many years who pay for the yearly have to wait for. I will look on flea bay afterwards to see what may turn up. Lets hope those who do sell will honour the price they get won for .
Joking aside, i do wish everyone going, a good time, and hope those travelling from overseas get many bargains. I will look forward to the pictures and who knows, i may well be able to make next year. .
So far this year i have bought all the films i could wish for without driving a mile.
It will also be interesting to see if any Newbies to the hobby will be there.

I'll be going to Blackpool and I did email Phil a few days ago and I mentioned 2 of the titles he is selling and he told me that each title would be £300 and scope features would be £350 - I might get one from him - if its still there - but if I can get some really good 16mm titles elsewhere - he won't be seeing me at his stall - if those top titles havent been checked then maybe I should be careful

Again thats quite wrong of him to say that, i offered 350 for two of the titles and he said im looking for offers above 400, preferably nearer 500. That was the end of that call for me. . I do get that there needs to be something worthwhile to offer at BP but the best thing would have been to have said, "we have a massive collection of classic and modern features which will be available at the convention". That way no one will be any the wiser.
David, i do hope you get one or two when you get there, best be the early bird though, i think the top titles will go quick, possibly by scavengers who will want to list them on ebay, fortunately, i'm not going , only joking.

How many "bidders" on ebay try to just make a price go higher and have no interest in the item? That happened to me a few times years ago; be outbid and have the item relisted and go through the entire thing again...if I wasn't turned off from the experience.

That used to happen a lot Don, I'm sure it still does, happened to me a few times too and I've heard it from many buyers, some sellers were caught out and banned but for how long I don't know.

Tom,
Trouble is saying I've just picked up a large collection of films I'm taking to Blackpool we've heard it all before, it was to get people through the doors, I've been a few times and was disappointed with what's there, it got me there though!!! Luckily each time I've been I did pick up something, it's a long way to go for ten minutes shopping. £300 to £350 a title, I wouldn't pay it, if it was from someone I know and checked then it makes it easier , having been caught out a few times its time for the bluray for a less cost risk. It will be interesting to see if all those titles make it there, Mark

I just can't understand the mentality behind this. if you want more money than most collectors would pay, stick it on Ebay , and let them fight it out, i doubt if he was not there people would stay away, we keep hearing about all these bargains you can pick up at the shows, perhaps, but i think a lot people are going to be disappointed because there is only one of each film, if at all and from what i am hearing unchecked, at those prices, i don't think so sunshine, jog on ....................

You can still get a bargain Paul at the film fairs as I recently picked up quite a few films at the recent Chorleywood do, there were Disney features for £120 and £140 and I've not seen so many ST1200's for sale in a long time, as it was a 9.5 event I was very pleased with what I got as I don't buy 9.5 films or equipment,I've still to watch two more buys. I bought the Italian Job and although is faded was a nice find.

As for the films Phil is taking he will sell them for those prices as where else will you potentially see those choice titles, you will take your chances as you do each time with his lists, he rarely checks anything unless it's a trailer or small reel and that's too much trouble, much will be sent back each month but someone will end up with it, you'll get plenty of collectors who won't send films back not to cause a fuss!!! His business thrives on such collectors, remember all films are guaranteed, it just means you'll have to send it back, again some can't be bothered, it's a win win situation as its a compulsive hobby(as is most hobbies), paying large sums on the day will be the same, better to have the title than not have it mentality, same with ebay(keeping it on topic!!) the only difference is on ebay you will complain and send it back at the expense of the seller, Mark

Thanks for the replies on this thread,
Don, yes i have recently sold two items that a couple of clowns bid on, one simply didn't pay even though it was only £10 + postage, the other idiot did a high price for a trailer, then as soon as he won it he emailed me and said, "sorry, i bid on your film by accident, please could you cancel it". What a twat!! On this occasion i did and blocked him as a bidder, my mates in work said next time dont reply, let ebay pick it up as a non payer so they mark him so. Clearly an idiot who just wanted to bid and win, how do you accidently bid? You dont.

Mark, yep, i know what you mean. At a convention, if your interested in spending 300 or more, (even 100 or more) i think there will be enough projectors there for you to see the print.
My recent mishaps of three films ending up as Blues Brothers isn't a perfect one, i still have to edit it in the right order and get three or four minutes made up to restore it. Luckily it is a desirable title, (not to everyone's taste though).

Paul, i think you may be right about CHC not being there may result in many people not bothering to go, he will have the biggest stall and what other dealers will be attending?
He has a good list of titles of which many will end up in the hands of others who will want to move them on for profit, again, if they buy it that is their privilege, it will be theirs to do as they wish with. After all, many dealers use to get into conventions early in the previous decades and do the same.

Regarding this threads title, after reading all of this it does make the idea that newbies are to blame for the high prices rather ridiculous. Unfortunatly, the high prices are simply that what people are prepared to pay. I think the sellers who list items at stupidly high start prices are the real offenders, not the buyers who bid and pay for films,(or anything else) that are listed with a sensible start price.
The chances are, only a very small number of the worlds collector's in cine films attend conventions at all.

Yes definitely Paul and Tom, CHC not attending won't put people off, I'm going as I know other stall holders have films I'm after, it's also service with a smile and checked which is always a bonus with them.

Ebay has its place but its not what it was, buying films on there is a risky business as expectations of collectors can be pretty high , lots of chancers, lots of people who don't know what they have and think it's worth a fortune but definitely it's not a newbie who's driving up the prices, anyone who knows nothing about cine is always shocked about the expensive way to watch films, I spoke to someone today and showed them the pictures of my new film cupboard, he asked is it worth anything? When I told him the prices some of the films are worth I can 100% say he won't be jumping on ebay and paying those prices!! Mark.

I just read this on another channel,
"I still believe right or wrong some of the rampant fleabay main stream traders who command top end pricing will be concerned our UK film conventions are up and running again thankfully. The best purchases for us are always made face to face. You can chat about the film, talk about condition and reach a mutual purchase ideal for us on used items. Conventions have thankfully retained the old normal not the new type."
Honestly, what planet is this guy on?? Many ebayers are collectors, (myself included), they will be over the moon that the conventions are back as they will be there in droves buying to sell on ebay after, and that includes the author of the comment, i'm surprised no one picked up on that. This is the same collector who, (bearing in mind he said, flamboyant ebayers command top end prices) listed a trailer at £50 start as well as old 400 footers at £50. Pot, kettle, black comes into mind here. Collectors and sellers just need to be honest and open. Practice what one preaches. When i list, i try and list as honest as is possible a good description in print, colour and sound, screenshots of the print and a reasonable opening price.

Mark, i agree 100%, newbies would be put off the hobby with two minute trailers being started at £50 with other titles they would like to own going for over a grand. They would think we're nuts, to be honest, we must be a bit looney to keep buying with so many cheaper, easier and very high quality ways of viewing our films. It is a very compulsive hobby.

HA HA Nice one Tom, I think perhaps the author isn't even reading is own upload because it completely contradicts what we know, deluded springs to mind . Well as i have said on the other channel, i won't be there to miss all the bargains that have gone tens minutes before, or talk to the enthusiasts who don't work for a living but enjoy a better life style than me, or smile in your face and then rob you without violence, twenty years or more it hasn't changed from when i last went, enjoy your weekend at Blackpool, and don't forget the attractions if have any money left that is .....................

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I know where your coming from Paul.
I think 2022 will be an interesting year, ebay have changed the way people sell and get paid and i have definatly noticed that a lot of people i followed are not listing anywhere near as often as they use to.
Personally, i did have concerns about the way it changed but i for one, am ok with it so far. The only mistake i made was letting ebay change my default to use Global Shipping, the one time i used it to sell was a disaster and the way i had to get onto ebay day after day to sort it made sure i will never use it to sell again. I did get my money and the guy got his film, five weeks later in the EU. Once Global shipping gets it, you cannot track it. It sucks. Good if your a buyer and dont mind waiting though.

With new releases about to come out over the next few months i wonder how many will end up on ebay. Now, if the author of said previous comments like "rampant fleabay main stream traders", seems to be against sellers of the fleabay, how come he sold a copy of Jurassic Park along with the £50 trailer on there instead of waiting and offering them at Blackpool face to face over a chat, you know? You see how two faced even hardened collectors can be when cash is involved? Be consistent and be honest, these things come back to haunt. Some collectors clearly cannot see it ,

That person will turn you over on ebay and face to face so his comments are always laughable, he's famous for it, love the lack of description or misleading words, classic!! Mark.

Boy all you guys have it in for Lee M. Is he really as bad as all of you make him out to be? You guys all bitch about "clicks" but this thread sure reads like one.

No not bitchin Bill, and i dont have it in for him. Ive just quoted and then made the point how he seemed to single out ebay sellers asking high prices when hes done it himself.i also made sure i didnt name him. No need to. People whine about high ebay prices while using it themselves to sell while another wonders if the reason for high prices is newbies!

No not bitchin Bill, and i dont have it in for him. Ive just quoted and then made the point how he seemed to single out ebay sellers asking high prices when hes done it himself.i also made sure i didnt name him. No need to. People whine about high ebay prices while using it themselves to sell while another wonders if the reason for high prices is newbies when its more than often collectors listing those high starting prices