Strange Loop Loss

#1 by Martin Dew , Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:00 am

I have a Super 8 400ft cutdown which loses the loop in the same place during the end credits every time on my Eumig S938. I immediately assumed it was an imperfect tape splice, but there was no splice. I then examined the sprocket holes in that section with a magnifying glass and they all appear good and undamaged. I don't have a viewer editor to properly isolate that part of the film, but has anyone else run into this issue, and does anyone know how to troubleshoot further?


 
Martin Dew
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RE: Strange Loop Loss

#2 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:11 am

Martin check to see if this behaviour is commonplace on your machine before attempting to troubleshoot any possible issue.
It may just be a one off but over an extended period of time in use, you will better be able to assess the situation.

If one or two settings are slightly off on these, it is possible to experience "Jitter" at the gate on these machines and especially towards the end of the reel on a film, but unless you are experiencing this on almost every film you have so far put through your machine, it is far too soon to suggest yours may have a fault in any way.

If it continues to be an issue, speak with Paul Adsett on this one. He has much valuable previously learned experience on these type of issues with his own machine and was an invaluable resource to me when I first got mine.


"C'Mon Baggy, Get With The Beat"


Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:14 am | Top

RE: Strange Loop Loss

#3 by Martin Dew , Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:46 am

Thanks, Andrew.

I suspect it's not the PJ, as it doesn't occur with any other titles. I was wondering if I there was anything else on the film I should be looking out for, but I don't think I'm going to find anything!

That said, I think there might be a slight problem with the pressure plate and its positioning, and perhaps that could cause occasional loop loss(?). During projection I can sometimes see a portion of the sprocket on screen, and on other titles I can see the top and the bottom of the adjacent frames, incurable by inching. I'm wondering if the aperture is offset in some way.

Anyway, yes, I will put these things to Paul.


 
Martin Dew
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RE: Strange Loop Loss

#4 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:44 pm

What you describe there Martin, are very typical cam and claw adjustments required for many machines to then see them perform at their very best.

Also the fact you can, on some film, see fractions of the sprocket holes on screen is something I know for sure Paul had to visit his machine for the same reason.
At the time he very kindly gave me some very useful pointers to adjust the rear fixed gate if this ever became an issue on my own 938.

When I first got mine, I used it quite a bit at that time, nowadays I don't generally run it other than to give it a run a few times per year.
This is why Paul's advice would give you everything you'd need as I know he favours his machine over others he has and therefore he uses it a lot from what I gather.

As you know, he has also done a superb job of upgrading the temperamental main power isolating switch on his, something else you may wish to speak with Paul over as time goes by.

He really does know these machines very well indeed.


"C'Mon Baggy, Get With The Beat"


Andrew Woodcock

RE: Strange Loop Loss

#5 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:45 pm

After reading your framing issue again there, if the frame cannot be perfectly centered on every film you run, this generally points to adjustment required at the fulcrum of the claw where you should find an offset adjustment facility.

After many years of use the followers on these quieter machines can wear slightly which then means compensation has to be made to allow the claw to reach a high enough position to begin with to keep the image central within the range of the framing adjuster.

Some films test our framing adjustments to their very limits I've found.
Among the best I have personally come across to allow almost infinite framing, Elmo and Beaulieu mechanisms are two which bring about the most.

Among the worse for not having too much even to begin with, before adjustments become necessary are Bauer machines and I believe Sankyo machines aren't great in this respect either.

The Eumig is a little better but not among the best for its framing range.

Eventually, when no more adjustment is possible, cam and possible follower parts have to be changed out for new, then you will gain back your full range of adjustment once again.


"C'Mon Baggy, Get With The Beat"


Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:52 pm | Top

RE: Strange Loop Loss

#6 by Martin Dew , Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:44 pm

Thanks, Andrew. I've left a message for Paul too, so I'll see what he comes back with. I'm hoping no overhaul is required, but I'm very pleased that John White is within a stone's throw of me too. I may ask him to give my 938 a full once-over if he can book me in over the next couple of weeks to check all the functionality.


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Martin Dew
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ThankYou 95


RE: Strange Loop Loss

#7 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:26 am

Just take a look at Paul's advice also Martin. Certainly for your partially exposed frame issue, it may well just require a slight tweak of the fixed gate in the horizontal axis as no doubt Paul has explained.
On 8mm film, tiny adjustments make many a big difference in the way they run.

Whenever you find yourself satisfied with it all and consider it to be running back at its peak levels again, place one or two reference marks around anything that can be adjusted so you have a reference return point in future.

Many components can wear while a mechanism is moving up and down 24 times per second, but it's important to always be able to know the things you CAN rule out whenever things change slightly.
Then with a logical approach, a diagnosis on each occasion, should come about much easier in the future.


"C'Mon Baggy, Get With The Beat"


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Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:34 am | Top

RE: Strange Loop Loss

#8 by Martin Dew , Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:48 pm

That's exactly what Paul said, that it's probably to do with the fixed gate. There are two outer screws which can be undone. I started experimenting with tiny 5 or 10 deg adjustments on the screws last night. You can see the difference onscreen, but there's quite a bit of trial and error involved, as Paul had said. I'm still going to book into John's shed next week, just to get his blessing on the machine, but I suspect not too much needs to be tinkered with.


 
Martin Dew
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RE: Strange Loop Loss

#9 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:14 pm

And that's precisely the way we like these things Martin. I prefer the term restored to tinkered!


"C'Mon Baggy, Get With The Beat"


Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:16 pm | Top

RE: Strange Loop Loss

#10 by Martin Dew , Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:45 pm

Me too!


 
Martin Dew
Posts: 571
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Date registered 10.07.2016
home: Henley-on-Thames
ThankYou 95


   

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