Can you really compare 16mm and 35mm? (and 8mm)

#1 by Tom Photiou , Tue May 10, 2022 9:32 pm

This was an interesting item on the other channel. Personally, i always think its a mistake to compare two gauges with are worlds apart.
I'm a majority super 8 collector but am really appreciating 16mm these days. The obvious difference in quality is top of the list as well as an almost certainty of top sound quality every time. Super 8 improved over the years, especially in the early 80s, but while 8mm is fine, and in some cases, outstanding, 16mm is always the better option for us.
On the point of comparing 16mm to 35, i think its a bit of a pointless exercise. I would always expect 35mm to be better as it is the professional gauge of the cinema, or at least until the digital age.
Scope on 8mm is fairly good but usually crops the top and bottom, it is annoying when tops heads are chopped off.
16mm scope, while still not quite the full format is a big improvement over the smaller gauge, (again image quality is better as unlike most 8mm scopes, it is always pin sharp). I have never owned, nor would i wish to own any 35mm films but reading elsewhere for sound, the 35mm film would be way ahead in quality of any 16mm print.

I will include the video item from youtube which compares the 35mm and 16mm star wars prints, its quite to see it and cleverly done, but clearly unless the 35 and 16mm prints come out of the same lab on the same stock, its seems to me to be a pointless exercise. Viewing this clip, the 16mm print appears to be a better contrast, the view wont know anything about the prints or optics used when these were scanned in but its quite an interesting item i thought.
A shame so many of the more experienced members dont seem to post on here any more.

https://youtu.be/Z7u_WjdHoUY


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RE: Can you really compare 16mm and 35mm? (and 8mm)

#2 by Gwyn Morgan , Tue May 10, 2022 10:36 pm

An interesting subject Tom,one which I think is down to the individual.As they say in the eye of the beholder,personally I have to go with 35mm having worked with that gauge.If you are fortunate to have received a new print from the distributor and you treat that print with the respect it deserves it will run and run,but again this is fine shall we say in a comercial cinema setting.
I run both 16mm and 8mm as most will know,and again I have to go with 16mm,but it’s a personal thing.
A lot of factors come into the scenario,type of machine condition of the machine ,and of course the print itself.
There are a lot of prints out there which one would ,could describe as good,also there are those that are mint,excellent.Now a combination of an excellent scope 16mm print combined with a well maintained projector plus of course a good sound system,what more can one want.
I’m sure the same applies to super 8 it’s a combination of circumstances that put on the best show.
Of course it does help if you have a good projectionist!!
The quality of the prints regardless of the format will obviously make a difference.
Going slightly of track 70mm film in my book is excellent,it’s a format that does not get mentioned here very often,anybody lucky enough to have it in there home cinema.I know some do .
Now as for the comparison of 35mm and the digital cinema of today,the DCP is so pure and clean it’s just not reel cinema,but I guess I had better not go there.LOL.
Before I say too much and have everyone breathing down my neck as I said in the beginning,each to his own,when I show Toy Story ,Loon King on super 8 they stand side by side with the likes of say South Pacific and Zulu in16mm to name but a few.
Anyone else’s thought’s out there.


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RE: Can you really compare 16mm and 35mm? (and 8mm)

#3 by Mark Mander , Tue May 10, 2022 11:38 pm

I personally think if your happy with your choice of film format then stick with it, comparing different gauges is a mine field,sometimes it's not all about quality but enjoying what you see on screen, comparing 35mm with 16mm is probably like comparing 16mm with 8mm, the larger format should win each time because of the way its produced, the quality of super 8 has improved over the years but still the lower grade format simply due to the reduction process, yes quality is important but many collectors haven't tried 16mm let alone 35mm,Mark


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RE: Can you really compare 16mm and 35mm? (and 8mm)

#4 by David Skillern , Wed May 11, 2022 9:01 am

I always used to favour 8mm as I’ve grown up with this gauge from being introduced to it when I was around 11 years old and as most of you know - I still collect on this gauge - but meeting a certain Mr Guest a few years ago - he sold me on 16mm - including a projector and several films - I fully agree that the quality is somewhat better than most 8mm releases - but for me it’s the choice of titles to be found on 16mm that has whetted my appetite. And it’s also good that when I go to film fairs - I’m now not just limited to one gauge.


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RE: Can you really compare 16mm and 35mm? (and 8mm)

#5 by Tom Photiou , Wed May 11, 2022 1:21 pm

Thanks for the reply's, (so far). I agree with all.
As Mark said, if it looks good on screen and the viewer is happy, i see no point trying to compare gauges for any reason, some of the items i read on the other channel seem a bit too obvious or irrelevant. 16mm is going to be better than 8mm, (with some exception's), 35mm is going to be an improvement over 16 and as Gwyn has pointed out, the one very few ever mention, 70mm, will top the lot.
The link to the YouTube item was interesting and quite well done by the person who put it up but looking at the comparison, i find it hard to believe that the particular 35mm print shown was the best example, likewise the 16mm version. You could take two or more copies of a film on one gauge and they could all have variations.
Our 8mm collection is by far larger than our 16mm collection and the clear differences in quality are something i rarely take any notice of, i just enjoy the films we view.

Getting back into 16mm did do a couple of things for me though, as per David's comments, i was able to find films that were never available on 8mm and it also prompted me to begin sell off a fair number of our older 8mm films that were slightly soft or fading, or films we just hadn't projected in years. When i rang Dave Guest a few times he always made me laugh by describing watching super 8 in comparison to 16 as, "like watching a film with sawdust in your eyes". Obviously he was joking and not meaning to be unkind to 8mm, but when you do have a 16mm IB tech, Agfa or LPP print in good condition, you cant ignore the sheer quality of the both image and sound.

The whole comparison thing will always be down to peoples personal views and preferences, but i got to laugh as some of the BS that gets put up about it as people try to dive into the technicalities of it all, just enjoy the movies.

Gwyn, many of those Derann releases in particular, really do level up to the quality of 16mm, most of the Disney titles, and many of those 80s action movies. I have never seen a print of predator on screen, but i recall when this was released it was described as the sharpest image put out on 8mm.



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RE: Can you really compare 16mm and 35mm? (and 8mm)

#6 by Mark Mander , Wed May 11, 2022 1:47 pm

Reference the film clip Tom, if the 35mm projector was modified for home use then that would have an effect on the image, the 16mm film looks a lot better and shouldn't ,if its shown on a factory original machine then it should be cinema quality.

I don't think 70mm will top the lot either but will be on par with 35mm as they are both shot on those formats, it's the reduction process that can change certain elements of the film.

Comparison with film and digital sources always made me smile too but at least this topic discusses film with film and another topic, Mark


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RE: Can you really compare 16mm and 35mm? (and 8mm)

#7 by Don Cunningham , Wed May 11, 2022 3:03 pm

The answer to this is dependent on many factors, one important piece being how the prints were struck. I will post my "experience" by using a title I have owned and screened on both 35mm and 16mm, HORROR OF DRACULA.

Both TECHNICOLOR prints. I no longer possess the 35mm print, but did make some reference scans prior to shipping off to the new owner. I have used those scans as a comparison to my 16mm print when I first decided to sell the 35mm. Here goes...

Having seen both prints projected, I could not discern any visual difference. "In-motion" a viewer does not get to focus on a frame but for 1/24th of a second. Now, examining a frame from each print, the 35mm obviously has better resolution while the 16mm is a tad softer. Likely due to the optical reduction/printdown. Color reproduction is exact (same film stock) and audio is very close. In the end, I choose 16mm simply because it is less to store and I have 16mm capabilities at hand.



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