Could be an interesting topic, so has anyone bought a film that you were expecting to be a good used print or possibly a new one but it had so many unexpected faults you had to send it back? Also how did the seller react?

I've had a few so I'll start with this one, I bought a 16mm feature of Mary Poppins off ebay , it arrived pretty quickly which is usually a good sign, colour was pretty good and condition was also pretty good but wasn't sure if it was all there, my thoughts were confirmed as the last part was missing at least half the reel, I contacted the seller and got a reply back and he said he had another copy that he would send, it arrived as promised but to my horror it had a large pane of broken glass in with it that I nearly sliced myself on, looking at the dirty film which was covered in dirt and dust I can only think it was kept in a garage for years uncovered and the glass had fallen in and broken, I did contact the seller but got a very weak response, but did end up after some very careful cleaning a complete feature. Mark.

I bought a 16mm feature from someone on Ebay who got fresh features in almost weekly, but said he didn't have the means to check them. The film was James Cagney in Blood on the Sun. The highlight of the film is the fight, where Cagney gets to show his expertise in unarmed combat. His opponent was actually American, but made up to look Japanese and was almost twice the size of Cagney. When it came to this part I found it had been cut out and re-spliced, so the previous owner probably decided to keep this part then dispose of the film. I sent it back and got a refund. I do have this fight in a 400ft extract from Mountain Films in Super 8. I bought a feature last year described as complete; the seller says this of every film. I found the end title missing. I wanted to keep the film, and messaged the seller but got no reply. Finally, I bought one from the US that on arrival I found had VS. The seller apologised, but said it would cost me money to return it. Good answer. Anyway, I like the film, I have had it several years and it runs fine, if it wasn't for the smell you wouldn't know anything was wrong.

I bet that was a bit disappointing with the Cagney film Robert, just getting to the exciting part and nothing!! As for the VS print I'm surprised the seller didn't mention it as the smell is quite obvious, it's good that it still runs nice and wasn't a complete disaster, I have this vision now though of you sat there projecting it holding your nose!!! Mark

I bought a 16mm copy of Black Sunday from a well-known online vendor who stocks a large number of 16mm films...no names here, but you know who he is. He listed it as a 'TV print' (with 'good colour') because it was only 3 x 1600ft, i.e. an allegedly shortened version of the film. It was also discounted because one of the spools was flat while two were scope. Okay, I could live with that. However, when it arrived, both the scope reels were badly faded and the reason the film was only mounted on 3 x 1600ft and not 4 x 1600ft is because, guess what, the 35-minute reel 3 was missing completely (which I checked against the Netflix stream, luckily available at the time).

Back it went, although this well-known dealer still insisted that this was a TV print and he was very reluctant to take it back. He subsequently posted it again online with the same description, even though I'd clearly pointed out his errors.

It's a funny thing really, we get totally turned over and get crap replies etc but won't name names, I can't think of another instance where that would happen.

Martin, it was a TV print but with a very long ad break!!! Ha Ha. The fact that it wasn't checked and then your argued with is something else.

So on another occasion (and there's many)I bought a copy of Ben Hur, it actually came from the seller of the Mary Poppins saga above and was a forum sale, advertised as good colour, it came again pretty quickly, absolutely red!! Funny thing is I let it go because of the well respected seller (crazy I know) ,mentioned the colour but was told it looked OK to him!!! Mark

That's terrible Martin. The seller probably hoped that a future buyer might consider it too much trouble to return. It's funny how some sellers can give an accurate description for one film, and completely wrong for another. Mark; I read from the makers of Filmguard, that it has been used on films with VS, and they still run well after many years. The seller of the film used to have a ;lot of negative feedback for selling films that turned out to have VS; another time he will say the film has VS in the description. Another answer from some sellers if you get a film with torn perfs, is 'It ran alright in my Elf'. How can it run OK in a projector with two claws when it jumps the loop in a projector with three claws?; this was in the day when I was new to used prints and didn't check for faults, I assumed the print had been viewed before selling.

Film buying, even new prints was a gamble. Films from Mountain where the contrast changed after a lab splice, or the sound was out of sync. In the early days, 1970s, buying from Derann wasn't without it's problems.

Yes it ran OK in my projector is thought as a good get out, with the price of films these days it's important to know exactly what your buying, from dealers you should have every confidence in your purchase ,not always the case as we know, Mark

A short puppet movie by Caprino, totally red and sprocket damage all the way through

Might run on a Bauer, but surely not on my Elmo, jumps all the way

Quote: Mark Mander wrote in post #5

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It's a funny thing really, we get totally turned over and get crap replies etc but won't name names, I can't think of another instance where that would happen.

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I agree Martin, I just don't like the excitement of a new purchase being extinguished by a film that's scratched, faded, missing parts or even the wrong film , when your confronted with unexpected faults its pretty upsetting, its a very visual hobby, I'm sure we don't expect perfect prints each time but somewhere close at least if it's advertised that way.

When I was at Blackpool I bought a few films, two features were bought from a well known dealer , possibly from Cleethorpes area, Summer Holiday and Ghost Train both 4x400, Summer Holiday was a pretty nice colour print , thats about the end of the good part, it's was possibly the worst scratched film I've ever seen, it started from about five minutes in and continued for the rest of the 800ft, reel two the same, it wasn't your normal scratching but diagonal green lines that wiggled from left to right over the screen. The Ghost Train was better, reel 1(800ft) was nice, reel 2 was missing sound for about 300ft and dipped in and out plus terrible sprocket damage , I was told to not send them back but bring them along to the next film fair they attended, I never did, Mark

That's bad Mark. Seems that dealers are able to put a value on the film without checking it. Major faults should be in the description, that way you can make an informed choice. When a film is jus Good or Acceptable you don't know what you are getting. Sometimes films are better than described.

I find it somewhat frightening when I see listings for films without any photos or scans, just simply stills from Google. I will often ask for scans or shots from the item to be shown but will often get "I am unable to do so" or "I do not have the means." Camera or cell phone would do...

Robert, I was more shocked at the response from Phil( I think that's his name!!) Asking to bring them to the next film fair, didn't seem quite right to me, obviously I gave up on that, Summer Holiday was sold fully described for £15 and I gave away the Ghost Train to someone looking for Part 1, Mark

Don, in those circumstances I guess you take your chances, Mark

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Now this is an interesting thread, and very good timing too as it coincides with something i have going on at present time.
Over the years i have recieved many films that are not as described. Trying to think of the worst is not easy but here is a few. The first one some of you will have read about on my review of the excellent movie, "Another 48 hours". The seller hardly ever put up still so this was a gamble on my behalf, therefore, i guess i was being a bit dumb. However, the film came on three reels, the seller assured me that the copy was very good as described from the person he bought it from. Reel one, excellent, just some minimal wear that generally with film, we must accept. Now, reel two is riddled with green lines throughout until the last 100 feet. Christ knows how it got this stage by someone. Reel three, like new, perfect. Lpp stock, pin sharp image ruined by reel two. The seller did refund a decent amount, i did have the option to return for a full refund but i like the film, although it may soon be going on ebay. The difference is, my description will be honest and have screenshots.
Recently, two things have happened, i purchased the 4 x 400ft version of Fright. Not cheap, i probably paid 30 quid more than i should have, however i asked for the colour to be checked. My guess is, only the first minute was checked because after the titles go up the sound dissapears, just to P*** me off more, i ran reel two, a single sound drop out for a few seconds, then reel three, sound for two minutes then for the rest of the reel, the sound drops out and comes back throughout the reel, i didn't bother wasting my time with reel four.
On this occasion i was told to keep the film and a credit kept. Not much use to me though.
OK, i checked the sales list from the dealer up North, i spotted something i didn't believe, an LPP poly 16mm print of the 1990 movie Dick Tracy with Warren Beatty and Al Pacino. I rang up and it was not sold, with my cash credit the film was just over 150 quid, and that is good for such a title. Or at least it would have been.
Quality is out of this world, an absolute stunner of a print, the problem? Two reels. I enquired as to if it was the full film, i was told yes, its thin polyester stock. I still didn't believe this as both reels only had around 1300/1400ft of film on them. I was right, the film ended after 70 minutes, there is a full reel with 30/35 minutes missing. To say i was utterly P***** off is an understatement.
At this present time, the dealer up North has contacted the person who sold it to him so at this stage the outcome is still to be sorted although, i dont hold out much hope. If the third part isn't forth coming, i will be returning it with a demand og a full refund, (inc the £12 postage), which has already been agreed if the outcome is not what i want. It is so frigging frustrating as this has happened to me before. Many years ago i bought the marketting full feature of Grease on 2 x 800ft reels from Perry's. Again, i knew right away that this was too short. I was right, part three was missing, it went back for a refund, I ended up paying the return postage.
As for worst quality print, this was two films bought from the Plymouth super 8 library. The company was previously owned by Roger Lily of The looney movie co, (among other company names he used). I bought where eagles dare and the wild geese 3 x 400ft versions. Both had tramline scratches throughout. Fortunately, this company didn't last long before Roger took it back over, moved it to his home and became The Looney Movie Co.
In this country there is the trading standards. As Martin said, it may not put you in good stead with the dealer but how many times do you put up with this?

Your recent experience is terrible Tom, as its from a dealer you buy in good faith and part with your hard earned cash, your buying from someone who specialises in film so think its a safe bet rather than take your chances on ebay from someone that has no idea what they are selling but it appears to be exactly the same, seeing the Dick Tracey film and then being able to buy it must have been a big tick on the film list only to be disappointed by the missing footage, not only that another purchase with the sound missing, it's unbelievable that it goes on so much, Mark

Here's another for you , at a film fair I saw the feature Thats Carry On, as it was a well respected dealer( the same one who sold me Mary Poppins and Ben Hur) I stupidly asked "what it's like?" , very nice was the reply!! So I bought it,paid fairly good money for it, got it hone to see the Carry On team but saw on the 3x600 reels, High Plains Drifter faded, an episode of The Protectors faded and a very poor condition Captain Marvel Black and white film, ummm, well respected dealer indeed!!! Mark

At some point a dealer or seller loses an awful lot of credibility after an excessive number of these types of misfires. I can see mistakes happening on occasion but not with the frequency that is being shared with these 'horror' stories. The only thing worse than being misled about a film is poor afterservice. An error was made by the seller--buyer is innocent, yet buyer has to jump through hoops to get his/her money back? Wow. That indicates truly poor customer service. The seller here failed multiple times. Once when the seller/dealer bought what he thought was the full feature of Dick Tracy, then again when it was sold on to Tom as a full feature when it wasn't, and third when the seller/dealer has not IMMEDIATELY refunded the money and postage.

I bought an ebay print of Adventures of Mr. Toad on 16mm, and was told it had a few lines at the start. That part was true, but what I wasn't told was the last 30 seconds were missing. Thankfully I had watched it privately before screening it for anyone else as it would have been embarrassing to show a film without the ending! That one went back immediately for a refund. But still a waste of time...

What other trades can get away with it constantly.
I guess at the end of the day, the old saying once bitten, twice shy, should be enough to make me learn.unfortunatly, i hadnt learned.At prsent time i live in hope the third part turns up but im not sure it will. Then i have the hassel of repacking the two parts i have and returning them.
Blu ray projection is looking more favorable with each film i buy from a dealer. At least if a disc is dud you only lose a tenner.
Maybe the answer is to stop looking at lists and being tempted, only to be dissapointed.

Personally I'd like the people responsible to read these comments and see what collectors go through, it's not just a thread to tear them apart because as I've said I've held onto films to not cause a fuss when really I should have complained or returned the faulty goods at the time but didn't, my choice I know but really stupid simply because you wouldn't do it to any other retail shop. At one point I'd ordered a few films and unfortunately it was a bunch of really awful buys, some mentioned above, it all came to a head when I bought a 400 footer of Mickey Mouse 50 years, described as lovely colour and when it arrived it was faded, it was from a forum member who is probably one of the fussiest people I know regarding film so was surprised to get it in this condition, It certainly wasn't a good time , Mark

What is wrong is that the buyer has to pay to return the film. I think at one time this was covered under the Distance Selling Regulations, but the Govt keeps changing the Consumer Rights acts, and I don't think it's mentioned now. It's not as though you have changed your mind; you bought something that was not as described or not fit for purpose. I only had one issue with Phil, but I got the best of it. In his listings he always says 'No dupes unless stated'. I bought one of those short (400ft) musical films of Fats Waller. I have the same film in Super 8, but thought I'd like to own an original 16mm copy. It turned out to have been privately made, the edge of the film was black instead of clear, which I think indicates it was made from a positive. I told Phil about it and he asked me if I would like a refund. I asked him if I could exchange it for another film of the same price. I ended up with an 800ft IB Tech travelogue of the West Country, and I didn't pay for the postage coming to me.

I just have one other story to tell; a few years ago I sold a Bell & Howell 601 projector. The buyer traveled from Bucks. He asked me if I ever attended the film fairs, which I don't, and asked me if I knew Ian from Perrys. I said I knew of him. He told me that he bought two or three features from him at Rickmansworth. He wasn't happy with any of them, one B&W feature he said was a composite film. Every time it went past a splice the contrast changed and he couldn't enjoy it. That cost him £70, another had lots of bad splices, and he wanted to replace them, but found someone had used sellotape, and everytime he took it off it pulled the emulsion off.

Ah the well respected dealer!! I think I've had dealings with him on several disastrous occasions, oh yeah, see above!!! Mark

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I remember in the other forum, someone saying they would buy from members as they could be trusted, where they wouldn't buy from Ebay. Among those they mentioned as completely trustworthy was the guy I just mentioned.