I was just reading Tom and Paul's latest offererings over on Film Tech regarding LED vs HID vs Halogen Technology lighting for our machines.

Seriously Tom,.. No, the projector doesn't know one way or another what lamp source is illuminating our screens from it's inner bowels and I'm sure if you asked any projector what it preferred to operate at, the answer would always be resoundingly,.. the coolest one possible!!

Bottom line is, everything is a trade off in this world.

What we want,...

a lamp with a similar warm Kelvin temperature output to what we have all always known for our machines with the advantage of it's temperature rise being only around 10 degrees above ambient giving the luminosity performance of that of a real cinema Carbon Arc machine brilliantly illuminating our screens.

What we get (the reality!),....

One or the other basically!

You fit LED lamp technology into your machines and for sure you get a cool running lamp. Also what you get is a very cold looking image. Almost Blue in hue it is so cold in Kelvin terms and gives off the most dreadful of illumination.
You fit a standard good old fashioned halogen lamp, what we are all used to, a nice warm powerful bright white illuminated screen image (if xenophot and fast lens is used) at the expense of the lamphouse running stinking hot and the lamp burning out after 50 hours on average due to the extreme work and conditions it operates within!

You fit a High Intensity Discharge lamp, you get the best of all worlds, both Xenon bright white stark beautiful imagery combined with a fair amount of heat in the lamp house, but nothing in addition over and above the norm.
It's a necessary and very fair trade off I feel and one that is reassuring to us us users of such equipment despite the squeals of pain from the machines themselves operating in such high temperature conditions.
If your machine gets hot with your current lamp fitted to it, please do look upon that as a reassuring trait from just such machinery. They are designed to work in these temperatures despite the fact that the perfect solution hasn't been invented yet!!

If something in this world usually appears, on face value, to be too good to be true, it usually is.

" People often use the ELC for more whoomph, but its not quite right for the film gate like the EJL."

I mean,.. when you read nonsense like this regularly,...as keane once said, Is it any wonder?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVe_KVzBFOo

Why risk aging electrical and electronic components at a time where official projector repair engineers are currently at an all time low????

yeah i didn't put it too well, reading it back now i think i should be banned for being a twat

The easiest way for me to put it is this,
A motor car works at its best when everything is warmed up, A projector doesn't require warming up, ( i know that arr arr),
but, what i am thinking is this, the grease and oils used in the projectors become a bit more supple with heat and things loosen up and move easier. The only reason i think this way is i am sure i once read something along these lines. I thought it was weird as surly all machines run at 18 or 24fps from the off. ours always have with the exception of a Eumig we had.

Go easy on me now

Many years ago in the cinemas where I worked it was customary to run each projector for 30 minutes before the first afternoon show started. This warmed up the mechs, motors, and circulated the oil supplies.
However, when the show started and the carbon arcs got going everywhere warmed up. For instance, the BTH Supa arcs ran at 50 volts, 75 amps, i.e. 3750 watts. A lot of heat over a ten hour period.
And in all the cinemas where I ever worked none had proper air conditioning in the projection rooms, only a simple extract fan arrangement. Whew.

It's true to say that things like engines and motors do work best and most efficiently once they are operating at full working temperature with their temperature stabilized at normal levels.

I am not sure for 8mm machines at least, whether or not this particularly applies to such parts as worm gears, spur gears in the drive chain, shutter cams and spindle bearings etc etc.
I don't think they are reliant on critical clearances working at temperature in the same way say an engine bore does.
I think they tend to be fine working at a wide range of operating temperatures so long as sufficient and correct lubricant is applied.

It's true to say that until almost all induction motors reach full working temperature, then they can lack torque in certain circumstances and similarly if an induction motor has been subjected to heavy frequent overloading to the point where the rotor laminations have visibly turned blue, then correct torque will never then be achievable thereafter and machines would become sluggish and maybe underpowered but aside from just this characteristic unique only to AC motors, I cannot think that much else could suffer as a result of working in a lower temperature environment and much of the electronics may even benefit by working in slightly cooler conditions without the additional waste heat that traditional filament lamps generate.

Get on boys thats what i was trying to say, Maurice, i should have got some word guidance from you first

So, in a nutshell, the heat given off from our standard bulbs gets everything hot and to a good steady running temperature, will the oils and greases with the much cooler lamps mean keeping an eye on the grease and lubes or am i overthinking this.

Does anyone here think i need counselling?

You need help Tom !!!!!, you are over thinking this mate, the whole machine will reach an ambient temperature, but that's affected by the room temperature and to some extent the outside temperature. I would just be concerned at the gate temperature where the lamp type is concerned, hid is very bright and all the heat is pushed forward by the reflector, but because of its confined space may be slightly hotter, but take into account the fan blowing on it, I would be surprised that it rise to dangerous levels to damage the film, unless it stopped stationary in the gate, but the 1200 has a paddle doesn't it that drops down when in still frame mode, looks like a flat tea strainer from memory, plus its aluminium help absorb the heat better,

Yes Paul, models like the ST 1200 have the diffuser already fitted to protect the film when stopped, from the heat of the lamp.

I was just considering the implications from exchanging a halogen lamp for an led type in what I was saying earlier.

The recommended Xenpow 150 HID lamps currently available for Super 8mm conversions, apparently do not run particularly hotter than its halogen counterparts.

Ordinarily in run, it would be fine in many many cases to simply just rely on the existing fan fitted to the projector but the problem is of course, that none of these built in fans actually turn until the projector is running.
Whilst that arrangement works perfectly well with halogen lamps as these tend not to be fully illuminated for the most part when the machine is stationary, it cannot work just by itself for a HID lamp which requires bringing up to temperature before the machine even begins to run ideally.

It is for these reasons that until the projector is placed into transportation mode, a further fan is necessary to keep the gate and lamp house sufficiently cool while the lamp initially reaches temperature and full luminosity.

It can actually be arranged if so wished, that the extra fan actually knocks off again just as soon as the projector is placed in run mode as the existing fan would more than suffice in almost all suitable cases of modified 8mm machines

I.e. ST 1200, GS 1200, SH 30, 9119, 708 el etc etc.