I think we need to establish how we want the forum. Should we follow Dan Lail's forum rules? All allowed, nothing deleted? If not, what should we do and who decides what's inappropriate?

What's your opinions?

Vidar in an ideal world there would be no need for rules or regulations !
The same goes for forums and other groups .
I however am in favour of a free for all forum on the basis that it is founded on the principles
of no personal attacks on members or posts that would not be considered P.C. on the grounds of
Gender , Race , Religion , Sexuality or Politics.
However I feel it is the responsibility of the member posting whatever to ensure it is within these guidelines.
Also it should also be the overriding responsibility of the Administration Team to ensure such guidelines are
being strictly adhered to. It is them who should delete and decides using their own judgement that such
posts are indeed appropriate or not.
If not chaos usually follows and things collapse. Part of the human condition I am afraid.
So healthy debates with no finger pointing or blaming is whats called for.

We already have some rules, but unlike Facebook, we don't have a pinned post, so members probably are not aware of what these rules are. I think the 2 co-admins should be able to delete or lock a thread without the need for a three way consultation, otherwise what power do they have.

Input from the members would now be most welcome. We admins have stated our views.
So what is yours dear members what do you think ?

For what it's worth, I am not going to comment on rules regulations etc, I have broke too many in my time, but I
do want to see the return of Andrew Woodcock to this forum.

If the topics and responses are kept strictly film and nothing else, that should at the very least lessen the chance for personal criticism between members. I'm seeing other content slipping in that is a precedent to it becoming like the 8mm Forum here. That would include commenting on current cinema, modern upgrades to vintage machines, occasional mention of digital, etc. My good friend Doug is now gone because of the recent activity on this forum.

Some adults unfortunately have to be treated like children in order to keep them in line, by setting up rules to be followed and consequences for not following them. I don't think by allowing "free speech" here is going to create a feeling of unity or make this a better place for collectors to come together. I'm a firm believer in being courteous to others. Maybe that should be rule #1...that is to be courteous at all times if you are going to participate here.

We do sometimes mention the 'Unmentionable', but we don't promote it, as they do in the other forum, so if someone says they just got a new feature, someone else might say they have a digital copy. I don't see the harm in that. I think almost every member has at some time stated that. Our main love is film, and the members here will never be persuaded to abandon it in favour of something else. Regarding another thing you mentioned Tim, an upgrade to a machine might be necessary if the lamps are no longer available, or only by paying £70 for one with 20 hours of life. That way you keep your machine running. I rarely visit the other forum, so I don't know exactly what the problem is with people upgrading vintage machines. Best to keep it original if possible, but better to upgrade some machines than have them as static display pieces, or sent to a landfill.

I completely understand your way of thinking Robert. I guess I'm referring to topics like soundbars and modern speakers. I'm probably too much about keeping things original. I myself, don't try to improve on the old technology or compete with the experience of watching a film in the modern format. I like the less than optimal sound and the imperfections in the picture when watching a film. I guess it's the same way with an antique/classic car for me. For example, when I see a beautiful 1950's car fitted with modern chrome/low riding wheels, I think "Now why did they go and do that?". Of course upgrades may indeed be necessary to keeping any machine running. I would do the same in a situation such as that. It's all personal preference, I know. We're all different and that's how The Good Lord made us. I realize there's no harm in the occasional mention of digital. I'm sure I've done it, but I do try to be on guard about doing so. I apologize if I've said too much.

I was the offender of the Sound bar question. Because of the noise I get from the Eumig speaker. It's vibrates and that's not a nice thing to have in sound. I do not mind the sound being mono and feel very content now with the new Craven speaker I got from the amazing, Hugh. I needed a new speaker, now I got it, no more wanting a sound bar.

I think the opinions are well divided on a free speaking forum or not. Hope we can get something that all would be okay with.

Well I actually live in the 'Real World', in which whether you like it or not, people do disagree, they have words over disagreements, others stick their nib in, which again is part of living in a country of free speech, it then makes for interesting reactions. Now if you lived in a world or forum in which we all have to agree, with what one writes, or ones opinions on this or that, you may as well not bother writing because you know every-ones going to say yes that film is the best, yes that projector is the best, blimey we would all be living in caves if no-one said I've enough of this I'm going to build a house. If everybody wants to follow like sheep just because one of the 'flock' has a disagreement, that to me is because you are frightened to be individual, I'm sure if I came across like I have the best equipment the hobby can offer, and no-one dare challenge me on that, there would be one brave soul who would think 'do you know what, I don't think that is the best, and I'm going to challenge you on that', because I'm tried of hearing it', then some-one else comes in and defends the situation, then another, then another, you would then feel you have to stand by your disagreement, because you think your right, the others think their right, it's what keeps forums lively, if everybody liked each other that would be false, you go into a room full of people, your not going to like everybody, it's a human condition, you don't even have to tolerate every-ones opinions because you are an individual with your own mind and thoughts, after all we are not programmed that way, but what you are asking is impossible, because it's me this week, it could be you in a months time, you just don't know if somebody is going to write or say something that you don't like or plain disagree with. Yes in a perfect world we could all sit around the camp fire and sing songs, but that is not the way it is. I would not want to belong to anything in which if I can't have a strong opinion about something, but be in fear of challenging what-ever or who-ever, because I am going to be disliked for saying it as it is, then....just step back and take a look before you start to talk of censoring, and what ever else you may wish to do to make things happy, because if I was thinking of joining a forum with rules like that, it would put me off.

No need to apolgise Tim, I didn't know to what you were referring. I like to keep things original; I see 9.5mm machines changed to quartz, I know it gives a better, brighter picture, but it's altered the machine. Would be a shame to do that to a Baby Pathe. I felt the same way about old houses having double glazed windows, it's altered the house. When I left school I volunteered to help in the restoration of a steam locomotive, someone told me that they had recently had to fit a new boiler to one of the engines, and one of members wasn't happy because now the boiler wasn't the original. Necessary if you want to keep the locomotive running. You are not alone in your thinking Tim.

Steve, from what you write, you are for free forum or did I misunderstand? I mean, we still not want to keep racist remarks on here (luckily we have had none), but I am all for free forum myself, but someone will be offended by something for sure.

It's OK to disagree with another member as long as we keep it civil; what we saw the other day was like World War 3 had broken out. This can only destroy the forum if we allow that to continue. Like it or not our lives are governed by laws, the law of the government, God's laws, and the laws of nature.

I am for freedom of speech,I have read racist remarks concerning old style films on here, maybe those are overlooked because of the authors. I'm sure that if you read back the name calling came my way, but I will put my hands up if I did any, one thing you will get from me is honesty and I will always admit and stand by my words and not do 'U' turns, if people on here do not like me, it's their loss, or mine which ever side of the coin you flip, don't judge a book by it's cover, turn a few pages and get into it. People do not like honesty, they would rather hear anything but honesty. I didn't ask for a fight with every-one, but I'm sure going to stick up for my self when I cornered, that's the freedom of speech I want.

I'd be interested to see the racist posts, could you point me to them? I know I posted pictures of Song of the South, but don't feel that has racism in it.

He's gone offline Vidar

It was on the song of the south thread;

4 by Hugh Thompson Scott , Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:42 am
Its time that Black or coloured actors, (which is PC? I lose track & patience) got rid of the chip on their collective shoulders, when they
harp on about slavery

Now I don't find it offensive, but I'm sure in this PC world some would, and they would take it and run with it, the point I'm trying to get across is that if you are going to impose rules, then it's got to be for every-one and not selective, because that's when it goes badly wrong.

And the racism being? Called Black or coloured? Is it racism to call us white then? I do not see this as racism, but I might be wrong

Nothing to do with colour but the tone, patience, chip on their collective shoulder etc,. That's looking from the angle you want the forum to go in, you will have to be vigilant because one mans remark is another mans PC.

I like this forum, but things do seem to get a little heated at times. I hate that PC been used for everything people find they don't like/agree with.

Song of the South is a point AT the time it came out things were very different, but I feel we must look at things in a different light now. It happened so unless you want to sweep it under the carpet and pretend it didn't happen.

One man's meat is another man's poison.

I hope people learn from their mistakes, by watching older stuff.

Why not have a section for digital, but only for the extras on them. There are some films that even if they were on film I wouldn't buy anyway. Some of the extras are very good on them.

Vidar you should be able to have a 'sticky' for simple rules.

Why not have a section called 'slagging off'


"Fasten your seat belts, it's going to be a bumpy night!"

I hadn't noted any heated discussions, other than that which we witnessed recently; this has now finished as the member has left the forum.

Suggested rule (which we have in an other non film forum I participate in):

Zitat

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Be kind and interact, not react. Agree to disagree even if attacked by another member. If an other member does not behave, please inform the moderators and let them handle the problem.

Be kind to other members, do not put them down, bait them into fighting or do anything to create a fight whether in open forum or private messaging. Trashing another member will surely lead you toward the banishment door quickly. New members are expected to abide by the same rules as seasoned members. We believe that Ignorance of a rule is NO excuse to break it. You are expected to read the bylaws and strictly abide by them.

---

Some forums have a "Report post" button. This could help moderators notice a problem and contact the persons involved before an atomic war has taken place.

Suggested guidelines for the moderators:

* Do not delete posts unless it is really bad. Deleting single posts will quickly create a lot of confusion, and others reactions to the deleted posts will not be understood and read out of context. If things are really really bad, it is often just as well to delete the whole thread, not just one persons post. If so inform the people involved in a PM and explain. But avoid this if possible.

* It is better to contact persons in a PM than as a reply in a post. They tend to listen more if the whole world does not see you point a finger.

* If many people are involved or a whole thread are gone bad, it is better to try writing a post and tell people to remember acting kindly than deleting posts.

* If the thread is to unfriendly, consider block posting in the thread. If you do, create a post in the thread first and explain why you do.

* As a moderator you really have to follow the rules. Never ever be unkind or unfriendly. You have powers other do not have. The members know that, and you need to be taken seriously. That means that you should not ever place yourself in a position where you have broken the rules.

* If a person repeatedly does not behave, send a PM and suggest the person take a break. If the person after several instructions to change behaviour does not behave, ban the person for a week or two.

* The absolute last thing to do is to permanently ban a person. This should not be taken lightly, but it WILL be necessary once in a while. No member is more important than the whole forum.

* It is a really good idea to have a separate hidden forum if the forum software supports this where the mods can discuss difficult matters. If you send a PM to someone to correct their behaviour, a copy of the PM should be placed here so the other mods knows what is going on.

Being a moderator is not easy, You WILL be yelled at. Someone WILL tell you you do a bad job. Some will always think you acted wrongly, no matter if you do or do not act. Often you know things other don't, like that you have contacted people in a PM that others does not see. This will make some mad at you for the wrong reasons. It is not easy to take action, but if you repeatedly fail to react to problems, the forum will loose a lot of members.

Critics to a moderator should absolutely be allowed. Moderators should generally allow more yelling at him/her and other mods than to other members.

And one last thing: Once in a while it is necessary to add a new mod. Be absolute certain you know the person. It is not easy to remove moderator rights from someone without creating hurt feelings.

I strongly believe in forum rules. The right to express opinions and free speech is no excuse to behave badly. It is a privately owned forum, and while you may say whether you like, you may not yell all day in your neighbours garden. Take it elsewhere. Create your own forum if you think the moderators do a bad job. It is always possible to react in a civilized way. You can point out what you find problematic, but it should always be done in a civilized way.

Just my thoughts after 7-8 years as a moderator :-)

That's great advice and guidance there Eivind .
Thank you very much for that posting.

It hasn't been necessary up until now, I'm not expecting problems from anyone else.

Robert - I am watching you ! ... hahahaha !!!!