Loose winding film stock.

#1 by David Hardy ( deleted ) , Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:28 pm

Have any of you folks been having problems with film stocks that just refuse to wind tight and flat ?
I have with certain "twisty / buckled " B/W stocks on 8mm and 16mm. No matter how much tension
I apply on the rewind arms they just rewind floppy and loose. Its a right pain in the "sprocket hole"
I can tell you that.


David Hardy

RE: Loose winding film stock.

#2 by David Ollerearnshaw , Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:36 pm

I have a 16mm that I suspect will smell when I look at it. Its colour film and the last 400ft to 800ft has started warping.


I still love the smell of film in the morning


 
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RE: Loose winding film stock.

#3 by Steve Carter ( deleted ) , Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:31 pm

I have this problem with one film, 400ft Walton digest of 'That Riviera Touch', it doesn't matter how much drag I put on the rewinds, it still winds loose, there is no warping or vs smell, there are how ever green emulsion marks like tear drops that appear now and again, this could be the loose winding rubbing the film, I know there's a name for this but I'm having one of those moments. Any-ways it's a lovely sharp and colourful print, but I fear further damage because of this looseness.


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Steve Carter

RE: Loose winding film stock.

#4 by Douglas Warren ( deleted ) , Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:24 pm

I've had a few prints (usually 400') that have had this issue.One in particular was fine after I put it on another reel which led me to believe that a warped reel may have been the culprit.



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Douglas Warren

RE: Loose winding film stock.

#5 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:12 am

To be honest I cant remember any 8mm films I've got giving any problems on that score, but a couple of 16s yes. It is just warp, as
David correctly states, you can stand at those rewinds, the veins standing out trying to wind the film tight, and still it "bunches", it
is a phenomenon, two surfaces that are not equal because of warp, won't lie perfectly flat. It is more than likely caused by heat from
the lamp over time, I'm only guessing, but on the odd reels, there is no VS smell, so I wouldn't worry too much. I t helps to use a
large take up spool.



Hugh Thompson Scott
Last edited Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:28 am | Top

RE: Loose winding film stock.

#6 by David Hardy ( deleted ) , Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:29 pm

Steve those teardrop marks are known as cinch marks. They are caused by loose winding or someone pulling the film tight
at the leader to tighten the loose coils of film. They are basically rub abrasions on either side. If they are green on colour stock that means the
emulsion side has been damaged.


David Hardy

RE: Loose winding film stock.

#7 by David Hardy ( deleted ) , Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:31 pm

Hugh yes it does indeed help to use a larger spool but it still bugs me though.


David Hardy

RE: Loose winding film stock.

#8 by Steve Carter ( deleted ) , Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:29 pm

Thank you David, that's it cinch marks, they come and go, this was a used print, so I guess the previous owner had the slack re-wind problem and decided to pull the leader as you say to tighten the film, correct me if I'm wrong if this would have had a balance stripe as well it may have saved the print from rubbing on it's self?.


Steve Carter

RE: Loose winding film stock.

#9 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:20 pm

I know there was a difference of opinions on one of the other forums on cinch marks, where the horizontal
marks on film they were saying was caused by tightening the film. I said that they were caused by pushing
the spool cheeks together, tightening would have made vertical marks. They couldn't seem to get their little
heads around that, but a bit of film on YouTube telling of the "Do's" & "Don'ts" of film handling supports just
what I've said.



Hugh Thompson Scott

RE: Loose winding film stock.

#10 by David Hardy ( deleted ) , Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:01 pm

Steve in answer to your question the answer is NO a balance stripe makes no difference. Try it for yourself on an old unwanted reel of film.


David Hardy

RE: Loose winding film stock.

#11 by David Hardy ( deleted ) , Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:07 pm

Hugh ... Yes you are spot on there.
Also Horizontal marks can also be caused by poor rewinding where the film has made contact with the edge of the spool or platter.
Quite a common problem in 35mm professional cinemas. Mostly due to negligence and uncaring projectionists who are in to much
of a hurry to get the job done. TWITS !!!


David Hardy

RE: Loose winding film stock.

#12 by Tom Photiou , Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:52 am

One of the biggest problems can be a poor core on the spool. It only needs a slight imperfection on its shape and the film will be lose. This has happened to me a few times but all I do is change the spool(main culprit is 400s), then it seems fine. 99% of my films are bench rewound.



 
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