With so many variants on the new releases could I just ask for some clarity on prices please?

Exactly what is the price of these new 200ft reels?
Is it ,
A/ £160 (202 dollars) or
B/ £224 (284 dollars)
This is a hell of a difference and I really dont understand why, on ebay why there is such a difference, if we are told the price is 160 why isn't the ebay price BIN £160?
The new Christmas trailer reel 4 was the same,
Why am I asking this again? No, not to cause an argument, I think as collectors we deserve an answer from those who promote these releases, this wouldn't have been accepted by dealers in the past.
Why I am I bringing it up again now?
Because on Steve Osbornes website the NEW xmas reel 4 is up for just $124 (just shy of 98 quid), and the the new Casino Royal opening is actually $239, possibly $229 on a deal. Not the $300 as quoted here.
Anyone responsible for the new 200ft reels wish to comment? I'm sure there is a reason why there is such a difference but please just explain it so me and others can understand, but as the pints are released here in the UK and printed next door in the EU, I would have they would be cheaper here not 10,000 miles away in the states.
In order to sell as many as possible, prices do need to be consistent, you cant blame it on the dollar these days.

Not that I am going to buy the new releases,but I do think a bit of consistency might not go adrift these days when it comes to the pricing of new releases.
But having just looked at fleebay the prices are all over the place,£70 for 400 foot of King Kong 16mm and you only need three more of these to have the whole feature….LOL
Also £100 and don’t forget the postage for some 400 foot super 8 cutdowns.
One can appreciate that some films and projectors can command a decent price but seems to me pricing is a bit over the top these days.

I don't see anything about CASINO ROYALE on Osbourne's site. I searched the page in my browser.
BTW, anyone in contact with Steve, please suggest that his site is WAY too busy. No organization at all. It's 2023, not 1998.

I wouldn't pay a nickel for ads and trailers -- not my cup of tea and crumpets. I'm the guy who used to complain in the theater when they showed trailer after trailer while I waited for the darned movie I paid to see was shown! And remember those endless Will Roger's Institute ads, followed by the people coming around with cups for you to donate? What was that, church???? GIMME A BREAK!

🤣🤣, Thomas, I know what you mean.

My point here isn't the content, it is the inconsistencies in prices I speak to more collectors off the forum than i do on them and many many collectors see this has something a bit odd, very inconsistent, anyone who contacts Steve O will be able to confirm the prices he sells films for, but prices here in the UK are close to p*** taking. How about the sellers explain. How can there be that much of a difference in the selling price in the UK to the US?

It doesn't make sense but it seems this has gone on for years,I bought a film from the US about 10 years ago and it was cheaper than here in the UK, it was a new release at the time and even with postage costs worked out cheaper, maybe the costs difference nowadays includes the import costs on top??Mark

Thats true, but my point here is, if releases are said to be £160, (but miraculously just shy of a 100 in the US) why then, would you ask for a BIN for 220?

The whole thing stinks like yesterdays diapers

As I've said before, I take my hat off to all who release new titles, but please, lets have some honesty and consistency on prices, it doesn't help buyers one bit.

Yes I doubt I'd shell out the clams for any new releases.

Tom,

I didn't really want to get involved here as I don't know 100% what is going on. I suggest you send an Email to Steve Osbourne (easily found on his website) and to the UK seller.

But I will add this, purely my own thoughts...

1) For starters both Steve Osbourne and Dorun films are both separate sellers. In general Steve Osbourne DOES NOT sell Dorun films. Titles like Reel Collector Favourites and View to a Kill are only available from Dorun. Likewise Dorun do not sell Steve Osbourne films (in bulk anyway) like Casino Royale. You may see the odd copy on Ebay but I believe these are just spare copies that have been purcahsed from the USA with postage charges, reboxed and sometimes re-recorded. Nothing wrong with that.

2) I believe the German lab delivers direct to each distributer. Steve Osbourne gets his films direct from Germany and likewise Dorun gets theirs direct from Germany.

As for the difference in price you have to consider this....

3) Not sure about this but don't know if there are higher import charges for the UK as opposed to the USA. Remember now that we are not in the EU anymore and I'm certain that Dorun have been hit by customs charges. Don't know but the USA may have a trade deal or something else that might make it cheaper. The Euro / $ /£ may have something to do with it. Steve may decide to make less profit as he sells many other things to subsidize the cost of the new prints.

4) Buying from Steve Osbourne is great for the USA customers but us in the UK have to pay a bit more. For starters when you pay via Paypal the exchange rate you get is not quite as generous as those websites on google would lead you to believe. There is also an extra Paypal charge as well as the usual Paypal charge and tracked postage is possibly a tad more than you expect.

5) films sold on Ebay have an Ebay charge (as you know). How much depends on offers at the time but Ebay will always take a cut. And buying using Paypal charges the seller as you can't do friends and family on Paypal. As I have said before Ignore that BIN price, most buyers wont click on that but if they do it's down to them. There is nothing wrong with making a profit. I would say any profits go into the next release which many are coming out next year. It's not cheap making these new films. You yourself Tom sell many films on Ebay and just let the bids go as high as you want. Why not put a BIN price close to what Derann would have charged if they were still around, to make sure nobody goes crazy buying an overpriced film. Of course you're not going to do that .

As for only making 20 prints I would imagine it's to lessen the risk. My understanding is that there is only about 10-15 dedicated buyers today who purchase these new prints (me included) and the last few prints are difficult to sell so making more than 20 prints today is a risk with the current prices. Derann did sell loads of expensive features but remember they was a shop with monthly newsletters, regular open days and film fairs. Times were different then. Steve has said he is onto his 3rd printing of Casino Royale but hasn't said how many he gets printed each time? As it's on a 400ft he may only get 10 done at a time or less, and the price could be cheaper for him because of (3).

But as I said at the start why not send an email to both Reel Image and Dorun to find out how it is all done.

Finally no one is forced to buy films from the USA or UK. If you're happy with the price and the film content then buy it if you want to. It's not a club ( as was suggested ) whereby you will end up paying money for a film you didn't want. I'm very happy with my film buys expensive but worth it in the end.

Graham S

Graham, first of all, thank you for taking the time to reply, I'm glad someone has,

Regarding Steve O and the reel image, I am pleased to say I am often in touch with the Steve and he was happy for me to put his prices on here to alert people of his listed prices so no worries or need for me to contact them as I already am.

I do also fully understand that your reply is your own thoughts and that is important to clear up first,
You've made some good points with the possibility of export/import charge differences will make a difference, I have bought from the states a few times and find even with the import charges, (when I've been unlucky to have an item checked) the costs are still cheaper.
Ebay charges are actually not that high if you're savvy enough to list only during the 80% off fees and payment is made direct to bank, paypal is expensive and I no longer use PP, when ebay changed the payment methods and broke away from PP there was a bit of an outcry which included me but to date, I've been fine with it all and the charges are much cheaper in my view, aside that, it is the place to sell if you want to get the most, the only down side is the clowns who list ridiculously high start or BIN prices and there are many of them including long term collectors and member's of forums who really should know better, your more likely to make a sale if you list a reasonable start price. Most people understand this but clearly many dont.
I have always said, no matter what people pay for a film, if the start price is fair, then it is of course up to the buyer but starting with a rip off price just makes a mockery of everything and also doesn't do ones reputation any good at all.

I 100% agree with you that there is absolutely nothing wrong what so ever in making a profit, I've always said that, and at the end of the day, no one is here to be a charity however, on the other channel some time ago I did read a thread that Dorum films director stated that he was making a £40 loss on every print he sold and everything was "for the love of the hobby and to preserve our heritage", really?? Please, people are not quite as stupid as someone thinks. If you claim a loss like that you would not be able to sustain the amount of releases that have been done, it could be said that the less said said the better for your business.

To see how things are done, Steve O kindly sent me a sheet with all the costings from Andec and others involved so I do get it, BUT, do away with the process of using negatives and the costs are almost halved. It can be, and has been done with great results. Like real film sources, it all depends on how good the digital source is, but thats another story, when I get my own item made up much later into the new year I'll let you know but it's a one off for me not a release.

With only a few buyers for the new releases, perhaps it may be time to look at what are the best sellers, from what I find out from other collectors, people prefer the action packed items like the T3 chase and Bond items ,but unfortunately, real film is very expensive to produce when you go down the route of having to make a negative and while they do look great, they are very different to releases of the past with contrasts and colours not quite doing it, BUT, as I said, they do look very good and the sound on the modern print is A1, unfortunately, hundreds of pounds for ten minutes is what puts the brakes on for most collectors. Again, as I have said before I take my hat off to all involved who make new films, but lets stop the BS about the prices, what are the prices for a 200ft film? Is it, £140, £160 or other? Or is it $124 (£97.50) and the question regarding the BIN of 220, why put it up? If its to maximise profits which is perfectly reasonable to suggest, then just list at a happy medium 180, those who buy will still support, those who dont wont, no matter what.

But Graham, thank YOU for at least answering the questions, and I appreciate the points you made are your own thoughts, hopefully my reply will keep the debate going, who knows, it may give some information to guide future releases of what collectors want to see, The Queen and Paddington bear isn't one of them, nor muppet musicals, adult audiences need to be considered as well as kids though I'm sure there will be some ordered for them,

Emailing Dorun Films might just give you the answer Tom, it's a fair comment from Graham, I can't see this topic having much more to give, having a larger buy it now price compared to a lower starting bid will intise people in, import duties, greed,bullshit, who knows?? The Reel Image seem to keep things more transparent with sales, the whole negative vs no negative prices I don't understand but there are so few doing this that this will push up the prices, hopefully your own personal release will give you the answers too, Mark

Thank you Tom for that answer.

I'm glad Steve Osbourne gave permission for this discussion as I didn't want to upset anyone.

As for the price for the films you should have the prices on that list from Andec.

As for the using a Negative I suppose if you are going to make a release in bulk you need to go down the Negative route to save time if not cost.

Yes you're right about Ebay charges not being much if you list with the discount offer, I just don't know if the item listed is with the discount or not.

You're probably right about Action reels being the best sellers. Problem is we rarely know true sales figures. Even when Derann were around getting true sales figures was difficult as was finding out print runs and how many copies we're printed, it was always guess work. You would think this would all be written down and they could freely release this information.

Graham S

I think regarding the making of a negative, you may well be right that this is needed for multiple prints, if that is so, surely there would be no need for a limited run? I know these wear out with use but 10 or 20 is nothing. I know some titles are exclusively for Dorun, but Steve does also offer many of these titles as well, and again at a cheaper price.

Sadly, here in the UK we are well and truly shafted by the A holes that run this country regarding import taxes, we seem to have to pay more than anyone else.

I have read the list of prices i have from Andec and do get it, but I look at like this, Steve O sells cheaper and still makes a profit, clearly less than UK sellers but that encourages future sales. It would not be fair of me to put the prices up on forums as this opens up what is made and thats not fair to either Steve or Lee, it was sent to me to show me how expensive it is, hence why I am all for the full 100% digital way, again I use my 16mm Blues Brothers or Waterloo threads on here to show that if done properly from a decent source the results are as good, if you look at my screenshots from A fish called Wanda, (or the other two mentioned) you wont see the difference between the new and the original they are spliced in with. I will elaborate on this later on new thread.

Good thread though, thanks again Graham for your views.

Tom,

You are 100% right in saying that having a Negative should not make it a limited run, but would you want to put up the money for another batch to be printed and then sell them. I wouldn't. I suppose if Xmas Trailers #4 sells out quickly then they may consider getting another batch made, probably not but you never know. My own feeling is that these Xmas reels do sell (hence why we are onto #4) but take a long time to completely sell out compared to an action reel for example.

As you stated there are exceptions to who sells what. I would also make the point that some reels that Steve sells have originated from Dorun films but are sold through The Reel Image probably to spread the cost. Titles like The Daniel Craig trailer reel and Xmas trailers #4 both have largely British content.

I do remember some time ago David Baker put up sales figures of his 600ft cutdowns. Jurassic Park was his biggest seller but only got around 30 prints after all the hype. Jaws was even less.

I will look forward to your topic on your 16mm one off prints.

Graham S


Finally......Are you able to change the title of this topic and put in the RIGHT spelling

Yes please Eivind or Greg, please correct my silly mistake please.

Graham, my film will be 8mm, the 16s are only for repair sections for my own prints.

Hilarious that supposedly S8 enthusiast who don't even buy new films who have so many opinions on someone's efforts they give free time, money and effort for nothing.
Let's see you stump up the thousands to import these and I bet you voted Brexit so that UK trade pay exorbitant import duty were the US doesn't. Did it ever cross your mind to check your facts?

It takes 1 day to make the boxes up alone for nothing!

As a result Tom you have now killed S8 prints entering the UK produced in the traditional way
Nice to be appreciated for my free labour's. And probably killed som of the US ones off as well.
Voluntary labour's Dorun is now dissolved.

Wenn Sie hier auf Links zu eBay klicken und einen Kauf tätigen, kann dies dazu führen, dass diese Website eine Provision erhält.

First of all Lee, it's a shame you never replied directly before on here or on the other channel when I was on, It's taken something else for you to do so here I believe, please read on,

How have my questions killed off the new prints Lee? I asked a question, how is it that a print that is advertised on the forums for 160 has a BIN for 220? Is the price 160 or is it 220? Thats got nothing to do with taxes from Europe, that 220 is your choice to try and add another £60 to a print, I think if you had listed the 200s for 140/150 with a BIN for 160 no one would have took much notice, I'm not the only one to say this, it's just that no one else has bothered to come on and ask and many collectors are no longer on forums or FB or any other web based platform.

My other question was simply about where the stripe was done on a print and it was answered perfectly well by Graham, I asked on behalf of a friend who doesn't have internet access and only God knows what I vote for has to do with anything, thats probably the stupidest statement anyone's made on this forum, its not like you to bring politics onto a film forum, what i voted for has sod all to do with you or anyone else.

I have repeated many times that I take my hat off to all involved in making new prints, and yes, i have supported it so your wrong on that one, I have all three xmas trailer reels, Jurassic park and xmas reel 4 is on order, I'm more than happy to debate, but not if you want to insult me by stating what you think i voted for is partly to blame for Dorum films being dissolved, how do you dissolve a company of one? No website, no way to order other than through an e-mail address and not one registered with the companies house . Personally, I think you'll just keep going for an elite few who are happy to spend their cash in which case, i wish you well.

The statement you have put up and pointed at me, has happened just hours after i had a lovely phone call with Steve O in the states, what a great guy he is too, a bit of a coincidence? he was also surprised at UK prices for 200ft reels with the BIN price of 220 ($280) on ebay. Steve doesn't use ebay so he doesn't look.
BTW, in the states they DO pay taxes from Europe and also have to pay business taxes which, in the states, has gone up a lot I am informed, I'm guessing what you must pay in import you save on business taxes and profit tax as I'm guessing, not being registered, you dont pay.

No one at all, including me, has doubted how much hard work you put into the hobby and all are appreciative but to come on and tell me I've single handedly closed all the new releases down is just nonsense and really is quite a stupid statement to make.

You havnt really said why you've suddenly made this decision, if you want to carry on this conversation then do so, make sure you back up the bollocks your talking. and while your at it put it up on the forum as well, you know the one, the one where no must disagree.
The reel image.
Look up the website, anyone can see it, it isn't for an elite few,
https://thereelimage.jimdofree.com/

Now tell us the real reason why Dorun is dissolved, your customers arnt going to be put off by me mate.

After this thread, how about others join in and talk film and equipment instead of sitting on the side lines or throwing your toys out the pram, I'll sit back a while now and see who can be bothered.

An interesting comment from lee after all this time of tom asking you and others who may know what the answers were, but did not come forward to put this to bed. I wonder if this has more to do with the fact that HMRC are asking questions of those selling on ebay as to there actual working status, after all i'm sure a lot are claiming benefits and selling items to make some extra pounds on the side, wrong on both counts for me. Looking back at some of the photos from the blackpool event, a box full of lee's films sat on a table "unsold " with some of the higher prices clearly showing on the labels, now if so many of the super 8 fans were there and didn't buy, surely there as much to blame if not more so than one individual for your demise ? , i would have thought. I would of thought your expertise as a "film actor" would put you in good stead to earn decent living, there plenty of drama's on the tv these days, and your sound recording suit of over 50 years of experience would be able to bring some work in from pinewood films studios, after all that free advertising they get from your cine trailers, they owe you debt of gratitude.......

Following on from Paul’s comment,perhaps it’s not only HMRC looking at what goes on EBay,as clearly all the collector forums are easily visible and who is to say that FACT are not taking an interest.You have Facebook removing content which may be copyrighted,so who’s to say that the new films may ,and I say ,may,have come to the attention of FACT.There does seem to be quite a few pristine films of various lengths being talked about advertised for sale.I am not talking about the films being made by private individuals using their own content.
It’s only a thought remembering back in the day when there was only real film FACT had there hands full,now obviously it’s a niche market.
Of course with regards to the super 8 films being talked about in this thread I could be wrong because it’s a small amount it would not figure on their radar.
Regardless I do wonder how on earth Tom’s post has caused a business to fail,he only asked a few questions which to anyone watching the prices of films both here in U.K. and the USA can see the variations.
I could be totally wrong but a few thoughts.

If I'm honest Gwyn, I'm a bit bemused at being the sole blame, I think thats just bad eggs.
If questions are asked only one person seems to reply, Lee could have come on many times and debated the point and put the questions to bed.
I think your right about FACT though, they wouldn't be interested in 10 minutes going out to a handful of people when they have serious problems on line with new features being streamed and plug in TV sticks people buy that gives them access to anything they want, those are the real deal for FACT, not 200ft of super 8 film going out to 15/20 people.
I never thought ebay was a clever place to put the new prints up, thats for the second hand market, going on there would bring the wrong attention.

Can you imagine in the days of Derann/Walton/ DCR etc if they put films out for sale on one platform but asked for a third more on another, there would have been outrage, mine was a simple question or two, but it appears that my queries have folded Dorun, I seriously doubt that, there's more to this than meets the eye but then I guess we will never know, if that is the case, Lee needs to make it a bit more official by putting a statement out on the other channel so they know as well, not just in one part of a single thread here.
It's a shame he feels this way, bringing politics of Brexit in as well, We've all seen many people state that those who voted for Brexit are this and that and here was a good example, seriously, what did that have to do with any of this?