During my house clear out I sadly spooled off and binned my Scope/ Colour print
of TALES OF TERROR.
The colour had gone totally red and was stinking badly from V.S.
I had to get it out of the collection in case of cross contamination.
It had been like this for some time and was in temporary quarantine awaiting
its fate. I wonder how many more i will have to dispose of in the near future ?

It's a real shame to hear this David, however for any with the dreaded vinegar syndrome imminent, it is the wise move here David, very sadly.

David,
Sorry that you lost a film to this dreaded ailment that afflicts our beloved gauge. How did the move go? Sorry,I've been meaning to ask you.

That is another tragedy, very sad indeed, means another print is forever lost. Faded prints can be sold on or given away, but
vinegar syndrome is literally the end, unless caught in its early stages. "Tales of Terror" was one of the Corman/Poe/Price classics
that had segments appear on s/8.

It's probably been asked many many times, but since I'm new to 16mm, how do you slow the process down of VS in its early stages? I have two prints that very slightly smell odd.

Buy polyester Super 8mm!

No sorry Timothy that comes across as facetious, please forgive me, but seriously Pal, plenty of the non LPP 16mm prints appear to be "on the change".

There's little can be done, just as in the same way there is little or nothing can be done to rectify a heavily scratched print.So perhaps time to reflect and rethink the overall picture regarding what we choose to collect!

It's an ever aging hobby now and there are plenty of things to consider when purchasing prints nowadays.

IB Technicolor prints and LPP prints are without doubt expensive, but there is a reason for this when in top condition!

For all else, it can be had at giveaway prices, but equally, there is a reason for this also!!

Personally I'd rather pay £23 for a beautiful 8 minute short than £25 for a knackered worn out feature nowadays, but maybe that's just me?

Thoughts anyone???

O.K. now I'm sad.How is it though that one print can contaminate another?

Tim, don't worry, caught early enough, it can be stopped. There are sieves, little sachets of powder that absorb the acetic acid gas
that is a self generating process where the film digests itself. I'll tell you what I did with a B/W 16mm print I bought cheap, I placed
it in metal cans, on metal spools in FilmRenew, which is very gentle on your prints. I left them for a number of weeks, removed them,
placed them in cardboard boxes with the sachets enclosed with them. That was in 2002, the film is still here, it is no worse, there is a slight odour, but nothing like it was, I reckon ventilation plays a big part too, film kept sealed in containers, especially in a warm climate, will eventually spoil. I bore holes in the tins and plastic cans, just to let air in, I still prefer card boxes.

Chemical reaction Timothy.

I suggest you do as David did to any print you feel is turning odourous. This way your good quality prints will remain protected.

Or else go through the arduous process Hugh suggests, but keep them in isolation!!

I don't believe in cross contamination, I think it is just a print that is going through this sad process of breaking down, somehow I
don't think its like a virus, although I have kept this print separate, at the time I was taking no chances, but I honestly think that
cross contamination doesn't happen, I could be wrong, but I reckon its just a chemical breakdown of a certain print. We are the poorer
in the UK, we can't get hold of FilmRenew, bloody EU.

Plenty have reported cross contamination as an issue though Hugh.
I don't know, I don't have any of these aging 16mm prints but for those that have, I've read many horror stories!

I still wonder why the ones I have that really smelled VS when I gpt them, they do not smell anymore. Just had them lying open on a speaker

That just illustrates my point Vidar, if film is well vented, there should be no problem, keeping film entombed for years on end is bound to yield bad results. As for cross contamination, I still have reservations, if a new film is placed side by side with a vinegar print, I can't
see it doing any harm, if both films were locked in the same can for a while, it probably would. As I say, it is a film breaking down, much
like a very old car rusting away, parking a new car beside it would have no effect on the new one, but one is disintegrating. The so called "experts" that run storage facilities, are clueless themselves, film is kept in constant temperature, but still fastened up in cans fermenting away. The restored Hammer "Dracula", was a print found in Japan, in a facility, I covered this in depth a few years ago on the 8mm forum, granted they
restored the final uncut scenes, but half of that print couldn't be used, it was in such poor condition. Ventilation again, there are films far older than the '58 version of "Dracula" on 16mm that were used in hire libraries or TV outlets, but they don't suffer with vinegar syndrome, because they were used, out in the air, working prints, not sealed up. I take very little notice of "experts", particularly the Kodak ones, they have much to answer for, not only with film stock, but their so called cleaners.
As for IB Tech prints, they give in to vinegar too, no film base is without a weakness, but a bit of care and common sense goes a long way.

Polyester cannot be affected by this syndrome Hugh. All those bases ending in the letters ..ate are the ones affected, I believe.

Nitrate stock, of course is also renowned for self combustion also.

True Andrew, but it isn't perfect, certain chemicals affect it seriously. As for paying for certain film in various states, well I
have done, for a very, nay extremely rare print, as opposed to paying £200 plus for 30 minutes of Capt America or True Lies
etc, no competition, I term them "popcorn films", no weight, enjoyable, but forgettable. As I've said before, the new releases
won't sustain this hobby, the secondhand market does that, the new stuff has no interest for me, vastly over priced, in some
cases printed on some poor substitute for acetate and an interminable wait, when the Germans can remember orders from the UK.
Not a scenario for happy collectors.

There isn't much being released nowadays that interests me greatly if I'm honest.
I am quite happy seeking out older quality prints from Derann, Red Fox and the likes.
The later stuff from the era these were produced, in the 80's and 90's are my personal favourites.

Now and again, I see an odd short I'm interested in buying like the recent acquisition of the CHC release Gone Nutty I finally managed to get hold of recently, but for features, by the time Titanic was released, there is typically one or more reasons why I remain dubious about any purchase, given the stock and stripe issues on some of these later prints.

Yes, but if you take a good look at prices on CHCs list, they are in the realm of fantasy now, £39.00 for a trailer with some old ads stitched on, no thanks. If you are just going to collect modern prints on estar base, then you are limiting your scope Andrew,, bit like
just watching one TV channel or eating a certain type of food, it is limiting. I've never been that bothered on film stock, the prints I
have are mainly acetate, as good as anything, and a helluva lot cheaper than these "new" releases. I understand "The Spy Who Loved
Me" is supposedly being released on super 8, but I fear it'll be like the Chilcot report, much promised, never seen. Life is far too short,
you can pick up a decent print on 16MM for what it'll cost for a couple of spools on s/8, no, 16mm leaves all this new stuff at the starting
blocks everytime, and a whole lot cheaper.

No Hugh, don't get me wrong here, I don't mind traditional Acetate stock at all , it's just that my preference would always be Polyester pre striped stock and most of the prints I tend to want to buy tend to be on ester stock.

I would much rather have a print on Acetate with a good strong main and balance stripe and soundtrack than a poorly pasted Polyester one without these qualities.

As I've said many times though, I don't foresee myself ever going down the 16mm route.
It's just not my bag for a number of reasons despite the incredible amount and diversity of titles printed on the semi pro gauge.

The way I view it now Andrew is this, prices for new titles on 8mm are preposterous, you can buy complete features on 16mm
for what "new" films are costing the film collector now, just for snippets. Granted the larger gauges take up space, but that is preferable to gaping
holes in your bank balance for very little to show for it, just for to be able to say, "Well its keeping the hobby alive." is it? I doubt it,
its keeping a few well heeled elsewhere, but the hobby died years ago when video appeared.

I have only found two slightly smelling prints, in my collection. I have tons of acetate prints, but I don´t worry at all. I believe that bad labwork, high humidity, high temperature and sealed cans are the films worst enemies.

I hope it stays that way Mats, and your films stay healthy, although your climate lends itself to good preservation.

I am taking no chances with VS prints. If it stinks badly ... out it goes in the bin.
It is a gas after all.