Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#1 by Vidar Olavesen , Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:34 pm

Tested this today and still plays okay. It has a warp still, not sure that will ever be possible to fix.




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RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#2 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:54 pm

What kind of warp Vidar, is the film not lying flat on the spool? Is there a smell with the film? If it is acetate base, FilmRenew
is very good for soaking film in to relax warp, otherwise I'd recommend winding tight on its spool and leaving in a warm environment
for a while.



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Last edited Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:54 pm | Top

RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#3 by David Ollerearnshaw , Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:56 pm

Good advice Hugh, I would also try winding tail out.


I still love the smell of film in the morning


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RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#4 by Vidar Olavesen , Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:57 pm

Warm? I thought film was not supposed to be that way. It's rounded a bit, yes, I was thinking of spooling on the other way, so the warp was turned the other way. Have no idea what stock it is, I suspected polyester or something. Will give it a tug in the leader and see if it breaks

How tightly are you thinking? Manual I assume as the projector won't do that tight

Thanks for the suggestions


 
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RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#5 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:16 pm

No don't damage your film Vidar, if its poly, you'll be able to see through it when you hold the reel up to the light, David's suggestion
is very good, but your film is just "cupped", this isn't really a problem as your gate will still hold it flat, I was thinking it had bad warp,
warmth would make the film supple.



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RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#6 by David Hardy ( deleted ) , Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:09 am

I would suggest as David states . Rewind it to tail out on manual rewind arms however spool it on under and over
not straight across . Leave it like this for some time in a moderately warm room.


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RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#7 by Vidar Olavesen , Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:13 am

Warm room meaning room temperature? I will try this. Thanks


 
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RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#8 by Alexander Vandeputte , Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:24 am

I think David's approach is correct, spool over/under, tails out and let it sit for a while like that. I guess this is the German digest and looking at the colour it's on Agfa and it sure is acetate as polyester stock cannot warp (although it can do many other things )


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RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#9 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:45 pm

Never been a lover of Acetate stock, I have to say. Far too brittle for my liking.


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RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#10 by Vidar Olavesen , Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:48 pm

I tore off a little tail and it tore off easily. Acetate then I assume


 
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RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#11 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:55 pm

Indeed.

As Alexander points out, it has to be, it's the only way in which it could warp.



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RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#12 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:57 pm

I've never had a problem with acetate, indeed I'd say the majority of my films are acetate, the first time I came across the poly
stock was from Marketing Films in the late '70s with their release of "Once Upon A Time In The West" 3x400 in German, before the English prints, I was surprised on
the spools being part full, but it seemed okay, the Germans embraced it before anyone else it would seem, but I believe the acetate
stock they use today is poor, very brittle indeed.



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RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#13 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:00 pm

Also inclined to yellow easily.

Give me Ester any day of the week. Especially pre striped, the best of all imo.


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RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#14 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:14 pm

I've never experienced this yellow stock Andrew, this must be the new stuff from Germany, all my prints, even the old standard 8s
still are as supple and clear as the day purchased, which leads me to think that some chemical procedure or make up is omitted,
remember the EU call the shots, I am of the belief that poly being plastic will still warp if subjected to excessive heat. I broached this
subject on another forum, a member who had bought a "yellow" acetate print that tore if he looked at it, my attitude was, send it back for refund, he declined to comment, just a time waster, but instead of crying into the pillow, send the bloody thing back and claim a refund.
All my old acetate is still top notch, as many more members can state of their own. Why is it that no one can accept that something is
seriously wrong with a stock that is so susceptible to damage, and a strange colour but no one wants to rock the boat?



Hugh Thompson Scott

RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#15 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:39 pm

Yes Hugh, it does tend to be the brand new stuff coming out of Germany apparently that suffer from this mostly.

It's more a case of "that or nothing" though now Hugh, hence why complaining seems to fall upon deaf ears.
Take it or leave it attitude now from all of the distributors with all of this stuff. That includes mono pasted stripe only whenever Polyester can be found on new prints.



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Last edited Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:42 pm | Top

RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#16 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:55 pm

Well, these new films are not cheap, and my attitude is I draw the line at paying through the nose for bad stock that you would
be terrified to screen in case of damage, no matter what the title is. It is up to the dealer making the purchase, to specify poly
stock, and eschew the obviously faulty "acetate", never mind the labs pushing this rubbish, we are the all important customer, so
anyone who accepts these seconds only have themselves to blame. As far as I'm concerned, I don't like the titles on offer, so it doesn't
concern me, luckily I got my "Tarantula" on the last of the ORWO B/W filmstock, over 20 years ago, and my "Them" was a purchase
from Derann at the same time, but printed on good stock, no yellow stuff, which is obviously sub standard which should be rejected. I get this impression,
it may be just me, but the German labs are taking the piss, imagine placing an ad selling your film, starting by saying "film base is yellow, very brittle and every chance of snapping during projection", I wonder if it would sell?



Hugh Thompson Scott
Last edited Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:57 pm | Top

RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#17 by Paul Browning , Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:44 pm

I was offered the Walton feature of Bugsy Malone, but when he viewed it, it was badly warped. He believed the problem was the lack of a balanced stripe to be the most likely
cause. I declined this feature, but he later offered to send it for free with some other films I purchased from him, I still declined his offer. Perhaps on reflection, I was a bit
hasty, if some thing could be done to correct it. The thing is, the slightest opposite curl on super 8 when lacing it up on an auto thread machine is bloody fatal, it just ends up
folded like a concertina somewhere in the film path, even the beaulieu has no answer to this and its generally pretty good at handling most film, the elmo would be a none
starter with this problem. I never tried it on the fumeo, perhaps there is something of an advantage to the manual threading on troublesome film like this.


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RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#18 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:06 pm

All machines rely on some natural curl which you can always induce yourself on any run of film , I've found.

The Beaulieu won't bunch or concertina very straight film, but it will pop out at the lower floating roller assy and bypass the lower sprocket. Again no damage to the film but just an inconvenience until a satisfactory curl can be re established on the film again to get it onto the lower sprocket and back out towards the take up reel.

On any decent feature length film I have nowadays, I always put about 6 to 7 feet of white acetate leader just to get the leader onto the take reel as quickly and as simply as possibly. Acetate does have the advantage of having greater curling abilities, therefore it's the perfect choice as a leader, if nothing else I've found.

White leader also allows for the title and reel number to be written onto it with a fine permanent marker pen.



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Last edited Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:38 pm | Top

RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#19 by Vidar Olavesen , Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:58 pm

This is not a film, but this is the type of curl on the Raiders. I wonder if you, Andrew, is talking of a different curl?


 
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RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#20 by Paul Browning , Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:21 pm

Is this curve across the width of the film then Vidar and not along the length ?. If that is so, surely some kind of shrinkage has gone on here. Never seen anything like that
very odd.


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RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#21 by Vidar Olavesen , Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:34 pm

Not sure if I misunderstand ... If you see the picture and imagine the end closest is the head and the film goes on inwards. The sides are bending towards the centre of the film. If it had been more warped, it would be a straw :-/ I will try to check this film again in a few days, just leaving it now to see if anything changes. If it doesn't I'll try to take a picture


 
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RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#22 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:50 pm

What Vidar is describing is "cupping", where the film has a gentle curve across its width. FilmRenew would cure this and wound inside out as David suggested, preferably in a warm room for a time, to allow the film to relax.



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RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#23 by Vidar Olavesen , Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:53 pm

I have some Film Renew left. Would it mean soaking it? Or just do the same as when cleaning film?


 
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RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#24 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:11 pm

You can soak your film in it Vidar, it is a very gentle preparation, just be sure to use a metal spool, it affects plastic ones, wind your
film inside out through a cloth soaked in solution, place in a can with liquid poured in, and tape seal it, leave somewhere warm for a week or so, and check to see how it is.



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Last edited Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:11 pm | Top

RE: Raiders of the Lost Ark tested

#25 by Vidar Olavesen , Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:18 pm

You say affect plastic spool. Would it mean it would melt it? I mean, if it is a reel I can sacrifice, would it hurt the film? If it melts together with the film, I rather try to buy a metal spool. Or I can use a Regular 8 spool, which I have
Got lots of 400' reels, but no metal one for Super 8


 
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