Lamp mod for Elmo gs1200

#1 by Paul Browning , Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:33 am

Well thanks to Jonathan for the blown ESC 24v 200w lamp I have successfully transplanted the new improved lamp into the reflector, and has luck would have it, its in the right position first off. Incredibly bright compared to the original, now just need to get this into the projector and run some film through. It will need a heat reflector UV type to remove
some heat. Once this is proven I will get some pictures on this forum, and this will mod might work on any projector with this style reflector lamp including the smooth type used in the fumeo and beaulieu 708 . All it needs is a bit adjustment, then fixed in position. Stay tuned guy's , I feel good about this.


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Paul Browning  
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RE: Lamp mod for Elmo gs1200

#2 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:37 am

Well done Paul. I just love your innovation and your dogged determination with this one!

You deserve the success you're now seeing come to fruition.

I look forward to future developments with this one.



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Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:41 am | Top

RE: Lamp mod for Elmo gs1200

#3 by Paul Browning , Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:35 am

With no ESC lamps anywhere on the net now Paul has gone off the map, there will be some panicking in the ranks of the Elmo owners for sure, I just wanted to try an idea I had
and see if it could work. Thing is, the lamp is cheaper than the ESC too. Its in the temperature range of the xenon lamp, but can it match its performance in a larger hall environment, if I can get some more hours in with me welding goggle's for protection perhaps i'll have the answer.


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RE: Lamp mod for Elmo gs1200

#4 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:29 pm

The GS 1200 will become a dinosaur relic soon without innovation. For a start, the lamp is just simply TOO rare, and just FAR too difficult to source, and that is just a start of my moans with these!!

See other forum for my latest rant regarding mechanical design flaws that were never redressed in between creating the ST 1200 and then completely reinventing the GS 1200 from the ground up regarding the electronics, but not... ESSENTIALLY, the mechanics!!

What an awful, unforgivable oversight by Elmo given the competition circa 1978!!!

Well done Paul, in giving these machines even half of a chance of lasting the duration of the next decade in service!

The SH30 is another that quickly needs bringing up to speed with it's transformer tappings in this era!!



Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:39 pm | Top

RE: Lamp mod for Elmo gs1200

#5 by David Ollerearnshaw , Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:05 pm

Sadly proberly all super 8 sound projectors have some design fault in them, and the lamps will become in short supply. I blame the EU


I still love the smell of film in the morning


 
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RE: Lamp mod for Elmo gs1200

#6 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:54 pm

Not mine David...on both counts, or at least, none that are visible or any I've found over extended use of either, and certainly no shortage of lamps for the next 20 years!!

There are still too many pro applications that use this lamp.

People say this regularly David, but I have no idea on what they are basing their facts upon.
Mark Todd is an obvious candidate I speak of.
.
He makes certain claims surrounding certain machines, but then ask him to justify his claims, he goes silent?????????

Maybe they don't know these machines as well as they would like to believe they do!!

No sadly about it David, get the RIGHT machines, get THEM right, then you're onto a winner!!

Perfect projection from nigh on perfect design.

They are out there! Contrary to common belief and legend has it tales E.U. or no E.U.!!



Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:45 am | Top

RE: Lamp mod for Elmo gs1200

#7 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:40 am

I wouldn't be too sure on replacement lamps for anything Andrew, the EU want to ban Halogen bulbs outright, remember the 100w
household bulb, as far as I know only available mail order, not in high street shops, the EU want us all to use the headache inducing
low energy replacements. So I would be cautious on that score, the EU has only to mention the Environment, and our lot fall into line.
I suppose it gives one a taste of what it must be like to live in China or N. Korea, diktat from the un elected.



Hugh Thompson Scott

RE: Lamp mod for Elmo gs1200

#8 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:48 am

You may well be correct Hugh over the long term given these European barm pots that govern us all at the time being.

For the immediate future, the A1 232 is a hugely popular lamp that has massive stock levels still in circulation as things stand.
It's also a lamp that is used in the medical and entertainment professions, and as such I don't see it going anywhere soon, at least not without a suitably bright led equivalent of similar colour temperature replacement.
These professional equipment pieces used in endoscopy and the likes, are very much needed on a daily basis in the medical industry.

I always stock pile at least 10 at any given time and in the future I may buy far more to ensure that I have many many spares.

As things currently stand, batches of 50 or even 100 Xenophot lamps are still readily available in this country.

I think by the time I have 50 or 75 of these in front, it'll see me right in my lifetime! 😀😀😀



Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:08 pm | Top

RE: Lamp mod for Elmo gs1200

#9 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:08 pm

Wise decision Andrew, but there will come the time when old stock becomes NO stock, the LED stuff somehow I don't think
will fit the bill, in effect, David is right in his assumption, WE as consumers are not asked or given the choice, it is decided
by European Bureaucrats, we MUST accept their decision, surely these replacement lamps, if they are any good, will sell on their
own merits, why do we have to be dictated to. I was of the understanding that like QI lamps or TH, burned at a certain temperature, to
achieve correct colour,
will replacements do the same? What Paul is doing is commendable, but he is doing it as an interested user, what the EU are doing,
they are making sweeping changes without consultation, as they always do.



Hugh Thompson Scott
Last edited Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:10 pm | Top

RE: Lamp mod for Elmo gs1200

#10 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:12 pm

Agreed. Stockpile now while we have chance, that'd be my advice.

I'd be looking to get the transformer modified on other machines to cater for the 24v 250w Xenophot lamp , which again, still has massive stock levels available and will no doubt give a far brighter and whiter image on any 24v machine.


Andrew Woodcock

RE: Lamp mod for Elmo gs1200

#11 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:30 pm

I'd be careful on that one Andrew, as I remember a discussion in one of the mags where it was said that it put a strain on the transformer,
now I know next to nothing on electricity, but that bit of info stuck. Derann were at the centre of this one, as they were recommending
the 250w lamp in their lists. I am as guilty, as I was using them in my 9119, until Bill advised otherwise.



Hugh Thompson Scott
Last edited Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:33 pm | Top

RE: Lamp mod for Elmo gs1200

#12 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:34 pm

Correct Hugh, that is why I suggested getting the transformer lamp secondary winding modified to enable it to take the extra current before switching to these nice white lamps.

Alternatively, use a separate PSU to feed the lamp supply.



Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:36 pm | Top

RE: Lamp mod for Elmo gs1200

#13 by Paul Browning , Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:35 pm

Update, the Beaulieu was used to test the new modified lamp because it was easier to access the lamp holder. I know having tested the GS1200 with the original lamp and
3 blade shutter light measurement was roughly 600 lumens, so around that figure I would happy with. Results were good, nice even light across the open gate and slightly
more white than the normal 200w lamp, just shy of 580 lumens, and not falling off much at the corners. Now this is probably not in the correct position because the reflector
design is more in keeping with the GS. I will repeat this test with the GS to see what that does. Quite a good start I feel, and this lamp is less than half the wattage of the ESC
lamp with a slightly brighter lamp in the range, and increasing the voltage may crank it up a bit more. This mod could be done by anyone really, and that's why I 'm try to keep
it simple so the less confident could have a go with some help. Will get some pictures later in the week, now where's me welding goggle's.


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RE: Lamp mod for Elmo gs1200

#14 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:43 pm

I could have given you plenty of A1 232 spent lamps Paul to have used on this machine so the reflector would have been the perfect fit.

What voltage are your new lamps rated at Paul for normal maximum brightness levels?


Andrew Woodcock

RE: Lamp mod for Elmo gs1200

#15 by Paul Browning , Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:03 pm

Its rated at 9- 16v, optimum 12.8v. I think it would run at a higher voltage, but this would shorten its life I guess. The Beaulieu lamps I've got but not blown one's, so if
you got one I could mod that for the next test Andrew. Its obvious to me now that this bloody lamp was manufactured for Elmo to fit this machine only, I have never seen this
lamp used on any other projector, they must have had some clout with Fuji to get this made. Its not as bright as the Beaulieu lamp anyway, its roughly half I make it. I would
like to see this lamp in the Beaulieu reflector and see if that unusual ESC design is really so special.


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RE: Lamp mod for Elmo gs1200

#16 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:07 pm

So while it is just within range for the A1 232 supply, how do you intend to proceed using it on a GS 1200 Paul with a 24vac supply?

Is the lamp ok for D.C. and A.C. or are you rectifying the initial supply?

It was only the orientation of the filament I believe, that made the ESC particularly suitable for the GS 1200 and Fumeo projectors to gain optimum brightness.
They were never deemed to have the whitest of projected blank images I believe.

If you pm me your address again Paul, I will send you couple.



Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:13 pm | Top

RE: Lamp mod for Elmo gs1200

#17 by Paul Browning , Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:40 pm

Its a separate power supply Andrew, well rated though. I found a converter on ebay from china that converts ac to dc within this range, but they are hit and miss as
to whether I get it or not though. I will PM you my address details now.


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RE: Lamp mod for Elmo gs1200

#18 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:53 am

Thanks Paul, i will post out to you tomorrow. Good luck with the project,and all of it's revelations.
You are doing a sterling job my friend!


Andrew Woodcock

RE: Lamp mod for Elmo gs1200

#19 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:50 pm

Lamps are on the way to you Paul.
Some may be new if you want to use them normally first in your Beaulieu.
They are older style makes Sylvania etc, but still have the same reflector as present day ones and are all A1 232 , 15v 150w lamps.


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Andrew Woodcock

RE: Lamp mod for Elmo gs1200

#20 by Paul Browning , Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:32 pm

Lamps have arrived safely Andrew thank you. Now I can swap out the lamp into this new holder and see what output I get, never really sure why elmo used this design with
this unusual reflector with tiny facets on it, when most other machines use the smooth reflector and as good if not better performance, the Beaulieu being the one that springs to mind, with twice as much lamp illumination at the screen than the elmo, with a lower lamp power rating ??.


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RE: Lamp mod for Elmo gs1200

#21 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:47 pm

It certainly has an apparent better whiter brighter blank projected screen image on two blade high lamp setting than a GS using high lamp setting with a standard 3 blade shutter, that's for sure.

As we have spoken on many times here, and throughout other forum discussions, it is very much a combination of lamp, lens, shutter angle and another often overlooked factor...how much time the single frame spends in the gate versus the time it spends being moved in darkness onto the next frame...in other words the claw pull down speed.
Get all this right, then even 100w well engineered machines like the better Noris ones, then even modest lamps give fabulous screen brightness levels.



Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:30 pm | Top

   

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