On the other forum, granted we should keep separate, but this is serious, our friend Winbert Hutahean is experiencing truly
horrific film decay, I have never seen the like, especially on the 8mm gauge. Various theories have been expounded, here's mine,
I think this film has been subjected to various film treatments and what we have is a chemical reaction to each other, much like
mixing "the grape with the grain" in drinking circles, it ends one way, being ill, hence Winberts film tragedy. There might be a question to ask in sales, what has this film been treated with. Just my opinion on some of the film treatments, they do wreck plastic spools, some
of them. Myself, I trust non of them, the EU has ruined good film preservation.

I saw it too. Was not a picture for film lovers. Talk about horror. I am very scared of using stuff on film myself, like WD40, what will it do down the line? I will try Film Renew on my Raiders of the Lost Ark 400' as it can't be run anyway. Colours are good, warping makes it unstable.

Vidar, have no fears on WD40, I have used it for years on 16mm, just started on 8mm. It has been tested for the last 15 years I know
by film users to no harm. I love my films, I wouldn't even consider putting a chemical that would cause harm on them. WD40 is basically
fish oil, a lubricant. Some of the film treatments, some on ebay, sell, untested, but folk buy them. Where are the folk that say WD40 has ruined any film? I haven't encountered any, in all these years. Winbert has a film I TRULY believe is the result of mixing these cleaner/preservatives, just my opinion, I'm not suggesting he has done this, but a previous owner might have treated the film with
"A", then the next treated it with "B", hence a reaction, a good chemical analysis would comfirm this. I feel sorry for our Winbert, he must be heart broken
for his film loss, we should sympathise, what about our own?

I say again, I use WD40, a lube, used for ages by 16mm collectors, FilmRenew is excellent, it does relax warped film, but
you must keep up the lubricaton. The lubrications are now rare, it is the "Cleaners", which as archivists", we don't need, we
require lubricants and preservatives, we had that in the very excellent 2.22, which was when first produced, was thick and
viscous and stuck to the glass jar, but it did the job, scratches were gone, it was later thinned down, as was Thermofilm, which later was just a liquid gas, 2,22 was still a better treatment, we no doubt will never see a preservative like this again, forget
the £50.00 rubbish from the USA, 2.22 left it in its tracks, WD40 is as good as anything on the market now.

Not sure I can get it here. Do not remember, might gave asked before, is WD40 available in "normal" shops?

Vidar, you can buy it through ebay at about £25.00 for 5 litres, or in any automotive shop. It will not spoil your films, I promise.

i love WD40 as well, it does so much,as yet i have not used it on film, only because up to now i have not needed to to, but here is an interesting piece of fact for you,
by the way, this is not a joke
The reason it is "40" is because it took 40 attempts to get the water displacement to work properly.
original name was Rocket WD40, the WD stands for water displacement, in the motor trade where i work it is used abundantly.

And that is exactly where it belongs Tom!!


Somehow,though boring as an old record playing at 33 1/3rd rpm, I just love Filmguard, expensive but does exactly what it says on the tin!

Just like Ronseal! Ha ha ha.

What is the difference between Film Guard and Film Renew? I know I should have googled it, but lazy bastard that I am, I ask the experts instead :-)

Filmguard, non proven or trusted entirely on "professional" prints in the cinema environment apparently, though tested well enough IMHO!

FilmRenew, is "trusted" and recommended throughout industry, but nigh on impossible to obtain here in Europe.

Both do a superb job!

I'd beg to differ there Andrew, the only longevity to Filmguard, is in the amateur quarter, the professionals use it as a lube, them destroy the film, hardly a test.The guinea pigs are the amateurs. I did read somewhere on the internet, that it had all the chemics of WD40! Myself, I'm tired of all this bullshit, WD40 is universal, does NOT harm film, hides light scratches and is cheap, we as film
users have been ripped off long enough, half the time this rubbish evaporates before application! Back to Winbert's problem, it
seems it is chemicals interacting that is the cause of emulsion lift/

i do use filmgaurd myself, 222 was the one i used for years till it ended, i do wonder what that's done to my health years down the road, i was silly enough to use it indoors, my memory is embarrassingly bad and my sense of smell almost vanished, i often think of the years i used that and breathed it in, i guess i will always wonder. damn good film cleaner though.

I've used it now for 5 years solid, no adverse effects so far, and quite frankly, I've never used a better cleaner or lubricant.

That's so far, but then again, that's all we can speak of.

Friends of mine, well before I bought into it,had used it for a decade with no issues and continue to do so!

Just like a Beaulieu on a fine day, I've found absolutely no reason to ever doubt for one second, it's capabilities.
Gillette springs to mind!!

222, we all used in the past Tom. Have no worries, we are all high as a kite with short term memory loss! Ha ha ha.

Tom, don't frighten yourself, I have used carbon tet, with bare hands, to clean film, worked in asbestos, plaster dust from
the 17th century ,raw sewage, but still here to kick arse. The point is this, all these products that have been aimed at us, the film collector,
over the years, are not always good, tales of warped stock, spools falling apart, now we have Winbert's film. I am fed up to the
back teeth with all this rubbish on film preservatives, they are a load of balls, the chemicals that were effective are banned, so
you have this half arsed concoction that is just a grease, or worse. I am too old a horse to fall for this manure, it is over priced,
but that attracts some folk, not me. When a suitable alternative is available, count me in. I am back now to topic, I still believe
the problem on our friends film is a chemical reaction between treatments.

Like you say Hugh, the real products that are "the dogs bollocks" with film, are well and truly banned substances nowadays.

All contained a known carcinogenic substance known as trichloroetheleyne.
Gone forever now gladly, but for us 70's 80's and even early 90's kids,
It's with us forever! ....

Good news is.....we're still here by the grace of God!

So far at least!!

Ha ha Andrew, Wilkinson Sword is my choice of blade, and I have a beard, but back to the chase, Filmguard, seeing as it reared its head,
is effective as a "wet gate", it does not have the properties of the old 2.22, It was long term use, one application, not a bath on a projector before application, any film treatment will do the same thing, in hiding marks, its long term we look for, the old 2.22 formula
did this.

All I can say regarding Winbert's film is I received 2 films this week in a not far off revoltingly similar condition, stinking of Vinegar.
They were in plastic Techno boxes and had been unopened for 20 years, apparently. Non polyester stock in a hot humid climate trapped in plastic boxes don't mix! Straight in the bin!
Fortunately, the gamble I took was about $1 per reel, so no great loss there.
The other 5 films that came were in card boxes and were ok, btw.

Under those conditions Jonathan, of course Vinegar syndrome can set in on 8mm,
Only glad you're investment wasn't too high.
Always always ask for screen shots in this day and age. If they cannot provide, do not trust!!

hate to say this, but wd40 dries eventually to a sticky end, remember its only a water repellent.

Dont use it except for on my car and never would Clyde.

To be honest Andrew, it was a local pick up and I half expected this. At 50p a go, it's worth it for the reels (currently.soaking in detergent).

Quote: Vidar Olavesen wrote in post #5

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Not sure I can get it here. Do not remember, might gave asked before, is WD40 available in "normal" shops?

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I've been using it on 16mm a few years now Elvind, I was assured by some well known collectors it is quite safe on 8mm striped, I
have treated some lately, they seen fine. Some folk are using furniture polish and silicon, which I am wary of, as silicon does eventually
go hard. WD40 has been used for a long time now in the film circles, haven't heard any horror stories yet.

Just been re reading the topic, I come across as a self opinionated pain, I accept this, my better half knows it, so apologies to my
fellow members for putting up with me, the reason I logged back on, is Tom's reference to his health, now I have used 2.22 since it came
out in the little 50ml jars, which then it was a thicker solution than was later sold in the '80s. Tom, if your health is suffering, what other
chemics have you been exposed to. I have even been the silicone route with chemical DPC, the company that made the stuff has seemingly disappeared, but when you mentioned memory loss, it is serious, I only ever used this stuff and others in a vented room, ie, my bedroom window open, I never wore gloves, I am still here, as are you, thank our Lord, but I'd get some tests done, it could be from your previous employment, point I'm making is this, I have waxed and slept in the same room as these products, I'm quite fit and active,
compass mentis, not that you aren't, but this memory loss should be investigated, I speak as a friend, check it out.

Well my films treated with 2.22 seem OK. and they were treated in the late 70's early 80's. In fact even now you can still feel the lubrication on them. It was that good a lub they even had to make a removal liquid, that was proberly even worse on your hands. Because hands that do film cleaning use rough tough and not mild cleaners.

WD40 seems OK or as BT called it 'spray de-watering' They usedto use silicone spray this trapped water and went sticky after a time. So silicone is not really good on film.