The Secret..

#1 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:47 pm

Here in a simple set of diagrams is the secret behind the world's most stable drive mechanism for the benefit of Super 8mm Sound...








Hopefully these are a little more legible now.

Given the success of the results from this design, it does make you wonder why more never tried the same mechanism of having two separate motors electronically coupled together in synchronization to maintain a smooth constant speed yet independant drive for smoothing the film past the heads.
By having this you avoid all fluctuations caused by a splice or different film thicknesses etc etc.

On all other machines any variations felt by the shutter claw transmit to BOTH top and lower sprockets and therefore somewhat to the capstan and flywheel as these are just driven merely by the two sprockets via the film itself.



Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:55 am | Top

RE: The Secret..

#2 by Steve Carter ( deleted ) , Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:56 pm

Excuse my ignorance, but I can't see much difference to my old DCT, big heavy fly wheel and large pinch roller to smooth film past the head, then onto sprockets, my heads are 36 years old and fingers crossed they will serve me longer, how many times did you say you have renewed your heads?.


Steve Carter

RE: The Secret..

#3 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:01 pm

Steve there is a world of difference as the write up explains. In regard to your question regarding the two magnetic heads on this particular machine,so far never. These are the originals thanks.


Andrew Woodcock

RE: The Secret..

#4 by Steve Carter ( deleted ) , Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:02 pm

What is the machine you mention on the other forum that you are replacing heads on a lot. If I could see it I could read it.



Steve Carter
Last edited Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:03 pm | Top

RE: The Secret..

#5 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:05 pm

There isn't any machine I mention having to replace the magnetic heads on a lot on any forum I visit.

I have replaced heads on a Bauer machine but that was after it had been used for almost 30years regularly from the advice I was given by its previous owner.

Hardly a lot Steve by anyone's reckoning, I'd say.

The write up section is just about legible Steve. Admittedly the diagrams need 're posting when I'm at home which I will do.
From the path in the diagrams Steve, you get the idea though for now.



Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:08 pm | Top

RE: The Secret..

#6 by Steve Carter ( deleted ) , Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:07 pm

Have a look then.
Heads


Steve Carter

RE: The Secret..

#7 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:09 pm

Yes that's right Steve. Onset of balance side wear. Not worn out and as said won't be being replaced until necessary.

Luckily replacement to hand as when the time comes. That's the main thing in all of this. They are still available Brand New.



Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:11 pm | Top

RE: The Secret..

#8 by Steve Carter ( deleted ) , Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:11 pm

I think you post so much, you forget what you write half the time.


Steve Carter

RE: The Secret..

#9 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:12 pm

I don't think so Steve. There is no untruth here I think you'll find.

Half the wow & flutter experienced by the best of the rest. That's what the scientific facts state here in the write up. Hardly the same Steve, you'll find.



Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:16 pm | Top

RE: The Secret..

#10 by David Hardy ( deleted ) , Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:17 pm

It looks to me that they have based this on the tension roller system as used in 35mm Magnetic Heads.


David Hardy

RE: The Secret..

#11 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:19 pm

I have no idea how that design works David. Perhaps a diagram would show us some similarities if you happen to have one?


Andrew Woodcock

RE: The Secret..

#12 by Robert Crewdson ( deleted ) , Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:27 pm

What would a new head cost; I had to replace the head on my Eumig years ago, because that model comes into contact with the film when watching silent films. They probably changed that on later models. It cost me almost half the price of the projector. I got the head from the now defunct Johnson's of Hendon.



Robert Crewdson

RE: The Secret..

#13 by Steve Carter ( deleted ) , Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:29 pm

Did I say there was any UNTRUTH, no, you're exaberating, you're always right, always have the last word, deep breath...I just can't be doing with machine snobbery, you banged on about the Bauer, going over board, someone else purchased one and it was a Turkey. I just can't be brotherd, I'll close the door behind me.


Steve Carter

RE: The Secret..

#14 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:30 pm

Yes I'd love to find a spare head myself Robert for a S938 just to have in.
The Eumigs are now nigh on impossible to find new.
For these they are £250 each delivered from Germany.

Luckily not half the price of the machine or else I would be sweating!


Andrew Woodcock

RE: The Secret..

#15 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:41 pm

Oh dear Steve. You must have got out of bed on the wrong side this morning by the looks of things sadly.

Yes it's highly unfortunate that Tom got himself a machine that was less than A1. It really ought not to have been the case given the reassuringly high price he paid for his.

They often come with faults from the second hand market as many have been used an awful lot for professional type applications as indeed my first one had.
From a dealer with a warranty, at almost twice what you can pick one of these up for, it is a real shame in this instance.

Incidentally I volunteered the word untruth only because from what I was reading it appeared that there was an understanding that I was forever changing out well used magnetic heads on these.
This simply isn't the case, that's all Steve.

They did all come to me except one machine in a state of regular use for the past 20 to 30 years but that is it. I haven't replaced one of these heads and then been in a position where I have had to change it again.

Had that have been the case, even given the use I give my machines, then I for one,would have been worried and concerned that's for sure.

I'd hardly call a couple hundred pounds for a used Bauer projector, projector snobbery?
I simply speak of the benefits and pitfalls of each machine I've owned truthfully for everyone to read.
This in the way as I like to from other people's posts.

Isn't that one of the reasons why these places exist?



Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:48 pm | Top

RE: The Secret..

#16 by Robert Crewdson ( deleted ) , Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:09 pm

Andrew, the Eumig cost me £200 in 1975, it was about 1980/81 when I had to replace the head and it cost me about £99. So are you saying that a head will now cost £250, that's expensive. I haven't been able to watch my silent films since through worrying about wearing the head again. Maybe there is some answer when watching silent films to stop the head running on the film.

I could see what Steve was getting at, your post in 8mm Forum gave the impression that you had replaced the heads several times. I noticed that Tom's complaint is still continuing; he's been offered a refund. I know it wasn't a good transaction, but it's over, and I think he should put it behind him; it's becoming a longer read than 'War and Peace'.



Robert Crewdson

RE: The Secret..

#17 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:20 pm

I totally agree Robert. It's just one bad isolated experience with one of these. Nothing more, nothing less. No film damaged in the process or anything like that.

I was ready for throwing the Beaulieu at the first wall I could come across when I first got it.
It was damaging prints like no tomorrow at first until I discovered what was wrong with it.

Luckily, through past experiences with newly obtained projectors, anything even remotely valuable to me, print wise,was kept well away from it during this period until I was certain I'd remedied the situation for good.

Tom's experience was also pleasing in its outcome in that aside from the disappointment and hassles involved in sending the thing back, he didn't lose a single penny of the money he spent.

If not the best, it was great outcome all round I'd say all in all in this day and age!

I've changed my original bauers heads once but for both the main heads they have on these. I have bought plenty of spares that were part worn and tried them in this same machine.

Some were able to be refurbished professionally, some were not.
I've kept the ones that have some useful service left in them after relapping as spares for the future.

£250 isn't cheap Robert I will agree. But compared to what the machines cost new back then, I'd say it's just about in keeping with what you would expect.

A main motor with a feedback tachometer can be purchased for around the same. By comparison, I'd say the motor is a bargain!

It's all to do with what parts are needed more than others and in this case the spindles are the most requested spare part. Hence the unbelievable high price for these considering what they are!



Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:27 pm | Top

RE: The Secret..

#18 by Paul Browning , Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:29 pm

Robert with the play back of silent films a projector that plays back optical prints is a better choice, as you can slip it into optical playback and the heads retract,
so you get no wear on them, this is how we play pulse sync films back using the gs 1200 and a dvd player for the sound, if its minus the soundtrack of any kind.


Paul Browning  
Paul Browning
Posts: 1.246
Points: 2.259
Date registered 09.13.2015
ThankYou 181


RE: The Secret..

#19 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:32 pm

The later Eumigs with the known soft heads also have a silent film projection setting to get the head well out of the way when using the projector just to screen silent films.

Paul's solution above BTW has the best soundstage and wow and flutter readings from any film screening!



Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:34 pm | Top

RE: The Secret..

#20 by Steve Carter ( deleted ) , Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:40 pm

Where do you get off?, you really are condescending, to think I stuck up for you on the other forum, I now know just what that other guy was getting at.


Steve Carter

RE: The Secret..

#21 by Robert Crewdson ( deleted ) , Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:41 pm

I wouldn't want to spend £250 on another head, but without it the sound films are no good. One of the reasons I prefer 16mm, optical sound, so no head to wear out. Also there are those stories of stripe coming away on some of the Walton films, and the glue used being a contributor to VS. All my Walton prints only have a main stripe; I haven't noticed it made any difference on projection, but at those prices, they could have added a balance stripe like everyone else.



Robert Crewdson

RE: The Secret..

#22 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:43 pm

Steve, I have no idea what I have done here to upset you.
What do mean where do I get off?
Who's "the other guy"??

Forums carry opinions Steve. That's the point. We don't all have to think that one person's is better than anyone else's. Certainly I don't!!
What a boring old world it'd be if we all thought the same about everything!!!

Robert, you are not alone, many prefer optical prints, especially 16mm for just the reasons you are saying from what I've read.



Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:48 pm | Top

RE: The Secret..

#23 by Steve Carter ( deleted ) , Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:48 pm

You write so much cr-p, and come across as it wasn't me guv, honest. Did I get out of bed the wrong side...Just cause your "in" with everybody who count's. I mean asking on threads if someone has had your pm, it flashes at the top, and you get an email, it's all bloody show.


Steve Carter

RE: The Secret..

#24 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:52 pm

It's best left at that then Steve I think.
I simply cannot be bothered explaining any more than I have already surrounding the various points you raise.

We all want this to be a friendly place to visit , regardless of opinions, so to that end, I'm past commenting on your mud flinging excersice Steve I'm afraid.



Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:53 pm | Top

RE: The Secret..

#25 by Vidar Olavesen , Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:04 pm

Feeling a bit down about this. Any chance of getting past it as friends? Would sincerely hope so, as difference of opinion is okay, but hopefully we can keep it friendly


 
Vidar Olavesen
Posts: 5.684
Points: 12.926
Date registered 08.02.2015
home: Sarpsborg, Norway
ThankYou 344


   

Sidney Powell responds after Trump campaign says she is not part of legal team:
Bedknobs And Broomsticks Full Length Feature

disconnected Reel-Chat Members online 2
Xobor Create your own Forum with Xobor