RE: Sound bars

#26 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:56 am

Speaker "nailed" my son, it'll be three days to get to me it says.



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Vidar Olavesen sais Thank You!
Hugh Thompson Scott

RE: Sound bars

#27 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:18 am

well done Hugh! Sorry Vidar I was in bed when you're reply came along but great to see Hugh has helped out here.Top man that he is.

I think the postal will be quite expensive Vidar from UK to Norway given the size of the box but I guess you will already know about these things as you've sent many of your projectors back over here I believe.

I hope it all works out well for you here Vidar, you've got yourself a perfect match of a speaker there!.

Once again well done indeed to our very own Hugh.
He surely must receive "Man Of The Match" award for his efforts here!



Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:18 am | Top

RE: Sound bars

#28 by David Hardy ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:21 am

As a general rule of thumb you should never try and use "Hi-Fi" speakers for reproduction of 8mm/16mm or even 35mm soundtracks.
These will only show up the intrinsic limitations of the sound. Yes there are a few dedicated "cine-speakers" out there so give those a try.
Is it the speaker that is "rattling" or are you hearing sprocket hole rattle that is being shown up ? This is a common problem.
If its high speaker sensitivity you are after don't spend to much as older cones may have some hidden problems of their own.
You should look for a unit that rolls off at around 60hz - 1200khz anything wider and you are wasting your money regardless of what
the manufactures claimed frequency response is. Just look for a warm mellow toned speaker and you will be fine.
However if you dare and want to have fun hook up your projector line output to an amplifier and to a pair of Klipsch Heresy Horn Loudpeakers be prepared
to have your room blown up with loud SPL levels and your neighbours too. Hahahahaha !!!
Joking aside maybe you should hunt down an ELMO extension speaker that was designed to be used with these projectors. SIMPLE !



David Hardy
Last edited Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:22 am | Top

RE: Sound bars

#29 by David Hardy ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:28 am

Oooops to late you got a speaker now. Well done.


David Hardy

RE: Sound bars

#30 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:28 am

Though the Craven speakers were never designed for any particular projector model,they were designed to work well with, as was then...the more modern cine equipment. I know people have used these on my own machines and have been extremely pleased with the results.

Most used their stereo machines slaved out to a quality vintage stereo amplifier before hooking a pair of these on the end in their dedicated home cinema rooms.

If it was good enough for Colin Clark, I'm sure I'd be happy David if I could ever find a pair of these as well looked after.



Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:31 am | Top

RE: Sound bars

#31 by Robert Crewdson ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:29 am

Hugh is a top man. I don"t know anything about audio, but I do remember this speaker as being top class.



Robert Crewdson

RE: Sound bars

#32 by David Hardy ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:33 am

Andrew if my memory is correct these Craven speakers were designed by the late Arthur Dakin of Tandberg for cine work.
So they are good. I think they used Goodmans units but I may be wrong.


David Hardy

RE: Sound bars

#33 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:38 am

I think you're correct David from memory regarding Arthur, but I have no idea on the drivers used. I just know of a few discerning people in our world that used to rate these very highly and give them their seal of approval in their cinemas at their homes.



Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:41 am | Top

RE: Sound bars

#34 by David Hardy ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:46 am

Guys ....However i have had great results with cine sound via one of my " vintage "QUAD hi-fi systems. I have hooked up the sound via
a Quad 22 Control Unit and the Quad 11 valve ( tube ) power amplifiers. With a bit of filtering at the pre-amp end a fine sound is reproduced
via either Klipsch Heresy Speakers or even the original Quad Electrostatic Loudspeakers. With the valve and horns the cine sound is more
"authentic" in my opinion even taking into account the flaws and limits of the cine soundtracks. These Quad pre-amps are great for customising
the sound of technically challenged analogue sound inputs.



David Hardy
Last edited Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:47 am | Top

RE: Sound bars

#35 by David Hardy ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:53 am

Andrew ... Yes the Craven units were and still are highly approved of for Home Cinema Cine Sound. The only reason I never
bought them at the time is that I have always used my own amps and speakers and with a bit of "tweaking" I get a really good sound
even from poor soundtracks. I cant do a bloody thing about the wow though.



David Hardy
Last edited Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:54 am | Top

RE: Sound bars

#36 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:56 am

That's just all down to the projector design David. Change your machine when using Super 8mm and you need never hear any again!

People often blame Filmguard etc etc for the effects of Wow during playback of their tracks, but on the better designed machines, no amount of filmguard used...even way too much, has any audible effect.

For 16mm I have no idea but mag tacks are seemingly very rare anyhow in 16mm. Optical sound is always all over the place as the norm for me with the 5 St 1200's that I've ever had.Even the HD while vastly superior with its reproduction of the magnetic track, fairs no better at all with the optical variety I've found.



Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:13 pm | Top

RE: Sound bars

#37 by David Hardy ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:05 pm

Yes Andrew I am aware of that about the wow with different projectors. My Elmos do it a lot but my Fumeo 9119 doesn't.
However there is nothing we can do when its been transferred from the master source elements used.
I don't get any wow at all from the unmentionables. hahaha !

Lethal Weapon has quite a bit of strings background music running pretty much all the way through it.
It can be like warbling nails down a chalkboard to listen to depending on what machine you play this through. Completely spoils the whole viewing experience for me at times.



David Hardy
Last edited Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:22 pm | Top

RE: Sound bars

#38 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:18 pm

Except record it again yourself if you're unhappy in Stereo on a decent machine.

I have to say, it's not something I noticed TOO much of from the master track itself. More a unacceptable amount of hiss before the wow stability first effects my ears.

The original tracks do vary wildly it has to be said, depending on who produced the film and dependant on whatever given day it would seem in Deranns latter stages!



Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:22 pm | Top

RE: Sound bars

#39 by Steve Carter ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:20 pm

Well since loosing the hearing in my right ear profoundly deaf, and the highs in my left, the digital hearing aid to bring back the highs in my good ear, is rubbish, because it processes the sound digitally there it a slight delay and what I can only describe as a 'Chorus' effect like used in a guitar effects peddle, this make any music especially acoustic guitar, piano, strings sound like wow all the time. I loved my music but now I find it offensive, aids are designed for speech, but you can't get away from music in day to day life, be it on radio, tv background music etc, so why moan about the odd bit of wow, when it could be everything you hear, treasure your hearing, for when it's gone it will never be the same.


Steve Carter

RE: Sound bars

#40 by David Hardy ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:32 pm

I am surprised I have not gone deaf before now having worked alongside the roadies on stage at various Rock gigs
and having been subjected to being to near for comfort Bass Bins at such gigs. Add to that "noisy" film projection boxes.
However I had my hearing tested last year and its all good for a man of my age.


David Hardy

RE: Sound bars

#41 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:35 pm

I believe with noise David, there is good and bad noise at very high decibel levels.

Industrial machinery noise is dreadful for the hearing. Always wear your Bilsom Muff!

None of it is great but if you're working say alongside a 10kw Nexo rig then I expect you'd fair better than working on the tarmac of an international.airport after just a few years.



Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:39 pm | Top

RE: Sound bars

#42 by David Hardy ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:39 pm

Sound films are not my first love.Classical Music and Opera is.So I would hate to lose my hearing.
Luckily though its the Silent Film Era that's my favourite so I am sure I could learn to compromise a bit.


David Hardy

RE: Sound bars

#43 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:42 pm

It's music for me also David though not opera if I'm honest. I too would hate to finish up deaf from my all too many years spent in a factory as well as many others behind a set of very very loud headphones.



Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:42 pm | Top

RE: Sound bars

#44 by Steve Carter ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:51 pm

Well I would have expected playing live would have lost me mine, drumming with all the back line amps behind me, I also played guitar and bass, but no I had really good hearing, but one day I was having my evening meal and it just turned off, just like that, so you just never know. My audiologist keeps banging on the ears are a mic and the brain is the processor so the sound you hear is in your head, my brain now compensates for the sound I can't hear and makes up It's own sounds which can be bloody annoying at 2 in the morning when you just want to sleep.


Steve Carter

RE: Sound bars

#45 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:21 pm

That is terrible Steve, mind you, after being at Reading rock concert in '77 I think it was, Ian Gillan was on, and you could feel the noise
through the ground, literally vibrating, so if you have been subject to that kind of abuse, which it is really, something has to give. The "cinemas", if you can call 'em that now, have this idea that loud is good, so louder must be better, myself, I flatly refuse to be bludgeoned by sound at that level, so don't attend anymore. When you were saying of your ears producing this cacophony of noise where music is concerned, have you tried "bone conduction", I believe it was Beethoven used the floor of his room as a sounding board because he was deaf, I used to use it to good effect on my brother when I was crunching a boiled sweet by holding his head to mine, so that the sound travelled to his noggin as well, he hated it. It could be used in outer space just by touching helmets. I really sympathise on your plight Steve, it is very, very sad.



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Hugh Thompson Scott

RE: Sound bars

#46 by David Hardy ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:26 pm

Steve that's sad news there man. I guess I must be lucky then so far.


David Hardy

RE: Sound bars

#47 by David Ollerearnshaw , Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:02 pm

This is why film collectors are the TOPS. Hugh I dof my cap to you.

The Craven speakers were from Harry Garlick (not sure if spelled correct) Nelson Lancs. Arthur Deikin could have something to do with the Perfecavox speaker though.

Used to like beer bars myself.



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