film guard film cleaner

#1 by Dave Guest , Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:56 pm

can any one enlighten me
I purchased a 1 6mm feature in tech and was cleaned with this film guard cleaner when I got it . the film has an oily residue on it and it smells like oil .I have had it through my rewind arms 10 times to get rid of it and its still there you can see blotchy images on the screen when projecting .I have spoke to several collecters who say he has put to much on and it will dry up in time ,I have some what someone gave me and guess what I wont be using it .it smells like parrafin and hydrolic oil.i have taken some to a chemist to find out what it is and I should know after the weekend .how do you lot on here think of it .I used derans film cleaner for years with no problems and when my father passed away he had about 12 bottles in stock all you did was put it on a cloth and hild it between the film and when you had done it the cloth looked like you had wiped your backside with it .when you put film through your machine it was quiet and was pliable .this film guard stuff does not seem to remove dirt just an oily residue



 
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Last edited 03.22.2018 | Top

RE: film guard film cleaner

#2 by Robert Crewdson ( deleted ) , Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:25 pm

I've never used Filmguard myself David, are you sure the previous owner used Filmguard?. I had one with an oily surface, and I ran it twice through a cloth, the oil was still there, just the same, and I was getting a lot of colour on my cloth, so didn't want to do it a third time.



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RE: film guard film cleaner

#3 by Tom Photiou , Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:44 pm

ive never been too sure about this other than these thoughts,
I buy it as i cant seem to get any other alternative, using it as you do David, a little bit on a cloth between thumb and finger, i know a very small amount lasts forever, (i found out the hard way),
It cleans OK and it certainly lubricates. What i have noticed over the years is that if i clean a film, (i then reverse it taking off any excess with a clean dry 100% cotton handkerchief), if i dont view the title again for a year or more the next time i view it you do see streaks or something, it looks like black watery streaks, so i end up having to gently put it through a cloth again.
The price, in my opinion, is a complete laugh but it was this or nothing. I wish i could get 222 again, (just needed a gas mask for this though).
I have no idea what the make up of this cleaner is but i will be interested to find out.
I believe one of the best to get hold of is film renew but as i understand it, this cannot be sent to us any longer in the UK.


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RE: film guard film cleaner

#4 by Robert Crewdson ( deleted ) , Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:00 pm

There are those who say it smells just like WD40, and is the same product only more expensive? Van Eck sell a cleaner, but I don't think a lubricant. There is always Cresclean from CHC.



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RE: film guard film cleaner

#5 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:19 pm

it isn't WD40 Robert, that much I do know.
It's a myth.

Your issue David, might be if the film was coated previously with a different cleaner.
FilmGuard does not smell of paraffin. It is fairly difficult smell to describe but it definitely does not smell of paraffin or hydraulic oil for that matter.
I work with hydraulic oil on a daily basis when in work so the last thing I'd want lingering around the house, is the smell that stuff gives off!

All blotches from FG are invisible when projected unless someone has bathed the stuff in it.
The only time you can ordinarily see the blotches and residue left behind by this cleaner/lubricant, is when viewed through an editor.

FilmGuard is without a shadow of doubt, the very best treatment you can give to a film.
It's expensive, but you get what you pay for in this world.

Derann's own cleaner was pretty effective as a film cleaner but terrible as a lubricant and overall, just as with any product containing solvent, has a long lasting drying effect to the film. Not good.
It is also really only suited to pre striped stock films or optical sound films as it is far far too aggressive to use on pasted striped films.

So in a nutshell, Derann's own cleaner was ok for 16mm and 8mm optical sound films just as a cleaner, pretty awful as a lubricant to allow smooth and noise less projection from the gate, and terrible for modern day striped Super 8mm films.


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Last edited Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:48 pm | Top

RE: film guard film cleaner

#6 by Martin Dew , Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:46 pm

I've started using a method with FG that was voiced over on the other channel some weeks ago. A couple of guys there use an artist's paintbrush to dab a drop of FG on the base and a drop on the emulsion. Then they wind the film through with the cloth for 50ft or so, and repeat. I also use a tiny amount on reverse hand wind too. I use silk lens cleaning cloths (like you get with a pair of specs), as they are both absorbent and completely non-abrasive. It not only saves on the amount you use, but also seems to do a fine job of scratch and dirt removal without producing any streaks or blotches on-screen, and the projector will still purr happily.


 
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film guard film cleaner

#7 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:48 pm

Great advice Martin, particularly surrounding the type of cloths you use. Most important!

My method is simply to spray two times onto the cloth and clean using forefinger and thumb to pinch the film gently with the cloth.
I do around 600ft at time using either the Beaulieu in run (the only safe projector I'd recommend using this method to do so with!) , or the Spondon LPU.

I'm lazy when away from work so I'd never personally use hand cranked rewind arms and nobody should ever clean film using the rewind function on any projector.
It ruins the mechanisms within days!!


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Last edited Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:55 pm | Top

RE: film guard film cleaner

#8 by Robert Crewdson ( deleted ) , Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:03 pm

I've only ever used the Eumig to rewind and treat films. Never had a problem in 43 years.



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RE: film guard film cleaner

#9 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:10 pm

Your clutches must be made of asbestos then Robert or the adjusting mechanism must be wound in solid!

I've ruined plenty myself in the early years before then repairing the clutches myself again and I've seen dozens of machines where you can clearly tell they have poor rewind torque facilities due to being used in this manner.
The clutch linings or springs etc etc are always knackered until changed out.

It's the equivalent of riding your clutch in your car is cleaning film using the rewind facilities on any projector.
You just burn out the linings in no time.


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Last edited Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:20 pm | Top

RE: film guard film cleaner

#10 by Vidar Olavesen , Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:12 pm

I have a few bottles, but use Film Renew every time, probably more like Derann’s liquid by the description from David. If a film is jumpy, Film Renew fixes it most of the time. And the cloth is really dirty after cleaning a film, most often the mag stripe on Super 8 leave a lot of shit

But seeing Eivinds clean of his Tom & Jerry, if I remember correctly, removed much of the lines in his film too, using Film Guard


 
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RE: film guard film cleaner

#11 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:14 pm

FilmGuard is the best by a million miles Vidar.
Eivinds's T&J evidence proves this to a "T".

No other cleaner of film eliminates base scratches to anything like the same extent nor can the film ever run as smooth after treatment as it does using FilmGuard.

On the Bauer, at times films treated with FilmGuard run through the machine and sound more like a reel to reel tape recorder rather than a projector, especially on Giant spools.


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Last edited Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:47 pm | Top

RE: film guard film cleaner

#12 by Nigel Higgins , Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:04 pm

This is an interesting topic,as i cleaned a 16mm feature with film guard only last night and the result was amazing ,it took of all dirt and left a nice clean image on a black and white film and lubricated the film real good as it was a bit dry before . ,i use a similar method as martin with the cloths ,there is no greasy marks and no bad smell ,film guard doesn't smell real bad but cresclean does i dont like it have to open windows for days after use to get rid of smell, but film guard is good ,so to be honest david i dont think the person used film guard,



 
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Last edited 03.22.2018 | Top

RE: film guard film cleaner

#13 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:05 pm

It may well have had FilmGuard applied to it, but probably on top on some other cleaner or another. Then who knows what may happen?
The scent of Paraffin or Hydraulic fluid, would definitely not be present if only FG had ever been applied to this film.

I agree though Nigel, FilmGuard does do a marvelous job time and time again.


"C'Mon Baggy, Get With The Beat"


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Last edited Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:34 pm | Top

RE: film guard film cleaner

#14 by Dave Guest , Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:48 pm

I have some film guard I will try some tonight


 
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RE: film guard film cleaner

#15 by David Ollerearnshaw , Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:43 pm

Used to love 2.22 cleaner after cleaning a feature I was like Fred Dancing On The Ceiling.


I still love the smell of film in the morning


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RE: film guard film cleaner

#16 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:03 pm

The smell was overpowering though. No wonder so many old collectors back then turned into eccentric recluses. They would have been permantly high as a kite sniffing that stuff in all day long!
Equally, it too would be useless on today's striped film due to the amount of solvent it contained.


"C'Mon Baggy, Get With The Beat"


Andrew Woodcock
Last edited Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:56 pm | Top

RE: film guard film cleaner

#17 by Tom Photiou , Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:09 pm

I wonder?
Having used 222 for many years, move on 20 years, cleaning those same films again with filmgaurd, i wonder what long or short term effect that may have on the prints if any?


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RE: film guard film cleaner

#18 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:13 pm

You will have to wait and see on that one Tom. Fingers very much crossed for you though.


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RE: film guard film cleaner

#19 by Robert Crewdson ( deleted ) , Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:33 pm

Comment deleted



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Last edited Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:58 pm | Top

RE: film guard film cleaner

#20 by Dave Guest , Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:01 am

well I tried this film guard liquid and put a little bit on a cloth and finger and thumb ran a black and white short 400ft after care full viewing it had a oily feel to it and when projected you could see the residue on the reel as it was coming of the reel going into the machine I should have the results of what this contains after the weekend


 
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RE: film guard film cleaner

#21 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:26 am

I am pleased you are sending this solution to a Professional Chemistry lab to have it analysed and to give it a chemical breakdown report here David, it was something I was wanting to do myself but never got around to it so far, so you have saved me the job thanks.

I've just watched 2.5hrs worth of film, positively coated throughout since new in this stuff and did not see any on screen evidence whatsoever of a film cleaner on screen as my resulting screenshots regularly suggest, so in that respect I am a little puzzled by what you may have seen on screen from using FilmGuard David??????

Dependent on your outcome from the results David, I may well repeat the process but this time also send with it, a sample of WD40 just to dispel this myth once and for all.

You simply cannot better real factual based evidence and proof in this world.


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Last edited Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:55 am | Top

RE: film guard film cleaner

#22 by Robert Crewdson ( deleted ) , Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:14 am

Comment deleted



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Last edited Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:59 pm | Top

RE: film guard film cleaner

#23 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:45 pm

Comment deleted


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Last edited Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:00 pm | Top

RE: film guard film cleaner

#24 by Robert Crewdson ( deleted ) , Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:54 pm

Comment deleted



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Last edited Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:00 pm | Top

RE: film guard film cleaner

#25 by Andrew Woodcock ( deleted ) , Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:23 pm

Comment deleted.


"C'Mon Baggy, Get With The Beat"


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Last edited Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:01 pm | Top

   

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