I've put this here, as it covers two guages. Yesterday I came across an advert from America, dated 1959, advertising what they claimed was the World's first combined camera and projector. These were already in use in Britain 24 years earlier under the Campro name; as it's name suggests, Camera and Projector.

Reminds me of another false claim back in the day, Robert, involving those advertised “2 X 400’” digests that could (amazingly) fit on a 600’ reel!

The power of polyester! 😂😂😂

3x 400ft versions often fitted onto 1x 800ft spool!

The old "spool size does denote the length of film on each" disclaimer again.

Some people actually preferred this fact from the thinner Mylar stock, so they could screen a mini feature in one run using only 600ft and 800ft capacity machines.

Yes, but we collectors were never charged less for that — “2x400’” were usually anything but. I had some “2x400’” in which each reel was only 13 or 14 minutes long as opposed to the 16 or 18 minutes.

I've had Derann feature reels costing £80 each back then having 300ft of polyester film mounted on 600ft spools.

It's just the way the cookie crumbles depending on how the cuts were implemented.

Others have a ridiculous amount of film on them and last almost 40 minutes while still being mounted to a 600ft spool.
Sometimes around 700ft of film costing the very same price per part as the ones with 300ft on them.

I think Mountain were the worst for doing that. In the beginning I was buying films from Enfield Film Services, they sold mostly the Mountain range then. I bought a silent extract from 'A Chump at Oxford', got home, only to find it was 50ft on a 200ft spool. Someone took him to court over short measures, and though he wasn't responsible, he got fined £70, which was a lot then . I think it was 1974 or 75.

I´knew that I have read about even earlier camera/projector combinations. Here is what I found on Wikipedia:A more sophisticated movie projector was invented by Frenchman Louis Le Prince while working in Leeds. In 1888 Le Prince took out a patent for a 16-lens device that combined a motion picture camera with a projector. In 1888, he used an updated version of his camera to film the first ever motion picture, the Roundhay Garden Scene. The pictures were privately exhibited in Hunslet.

About Mountain Films: My first Mountain print, was a 200 ft version of the early Laurel and Hardy two-reeler Sailors Beware. It was on a very full 200ft spool and it was standard 8, so there were exceptions

Thanks for that info Mats; actually Friese Green did the same with the camera and projector all in one.

John, thats very true what you said about the collectors being charged for a 2 x 400 but only getting 600ft of film. Those mountain 4 x 400 often fitted, (as we have a few) onto 2 x 600 when it should be 2 x 800.
Columbia jumbo giants were pretty good though, a very full 400ft reel of film and they were £2 more expensive,
A bit like brand new sealed prints but "may" have lab splices.

Tom, back in the late 1970s and early 1980s, I found Universal 8 to be the worst at this practice with its’ “2 X 400’” digests. The second reel was usually woefully short of footage, as evidenced by the blatantly much smaller amount of film on the reel, and sometimes only clocking in at 13 minutes. And the “2 X 400’” digest fit easily on a 600’ feel. But, by golly, the price didn’t decrease as a result. 😮

Amazing what the package/digest film companies got away with back in the day — practices that would be deemed unacceptable in any other industry/market from a customer perspective. Wow.

Agree with you regarding Columbia providing a fairly full feel on their “1 X 400’” digests —- but, oh, that insipid narrator they utilized to describe the action that was actually happening on the screen! 🤪 I generally avoided Columbia digests for that very reason.

Very disappointing to buy a 400ft film, only to find about 300ft on it. Some companies would cut out a few minutes of the film while the spool showed there was the space for it. As you rightly say John, these are the only people who could get away with this practice, and we accepted it because it was the only way of getting a particular title.

Didn't Mountain Films even cut those 400ft digests when they printed them in the UK? The Jumbo, jumbo giant way of describing films was very misleading. They might have claimed to be the largest 8mm distributor in the world, but the quality of the stuff they released was poor, although the black and white releases did seem to be better.

I remember those Jumbo versions David. We were never informed that these features were edited. There was no IMDB to check running times. I did well with a few, which were within the 72 mins; also one was filled to overflowing, so I believe it's complete.

I didn't mind the Jumbo's and Jumbo giant's, BUT, a few i had were sold on or sent back for ridiculous poor quality, 40 Guns to Apache pass was one, and the Guns of Navarone was nothing more than a joke with the narration, it was the worst one next to straight jacket. Guns of Navarone is a very good film, (love this on 16mm in scope IB Tech), but the narrator was over whelming, 40 Guns had an utter hopeless image, soft and grainy, three prints later we got a refund, Straight Jacket, well, some people in the hobby love this one, i would have but again, the narration was a joke. I am sure columbia must have had a laugh at this one themselves.
The 20th century fox 400 footers did better, they still had some narration but it wasn't intrusive and often had none.
I think on this threads title, that those 400 footers that had narration added should have had a sticker on the front to let the buyer know, "with added narration" or " with shed loads of bulls***"

Sometime I'd have to look at my digest of Lawrence of Arabia, to see what the narration is like on that. The Columbia digest of 'Two Fisted Law' Tim McCoy (1932) is very good, but the full feature was only about 60 mins.

I got rid of my Columbia digests as the over-the-top narration made it embarrassing to watch, and it was something I’d definitely never show to an audience.