H.I.D. conversion debate

#1 by Andrew Woodcock , Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:18 pm

I have been reading the H.I.D. conversion debate during my breaks in work today and in and among all of what was written, I couldn't believe nobody pointed out the most obvious fit for our machines surrounding this technology, until thankfully Maurice said it at the end of the discussion thus far!

Why oh why was anyone speaking of 55w lamps, car conversion kits or using old lamp reflectors, when the Xenpow 150 offers all that's ever needed as a direct replacement lamp without even changing the lamp holder, when coupled with the suitable ballast unit?
This lamp is made for the job straight out of the box, with superb xenon like output by all accounts, from those who have already successfully fitted them to GS 1200, Beaulieu 708el and Fujicascope SH 30 machines.

I was truly baffled and positively perplexed reading nearly all that went before Maurice's piece.

As per usual nowadays over on film tech, I had my comedy moment once again given to me today, courtesy this time from the 250w 10,000 lumen claim!
(Lighthouse power from a 250w lamp. Spectacularly impressive.)

Keep up the good work Film Tech advisories!
Entertainment at its very very best during these cold winter northern afternoons.
Warms the cockles, it really does! 😂😂

As for the Xenpow 150 H.I.D. lamp and Ballast kit,..

Not for the amateur, maybe,.. but this is the only Serious H.I.D. replacement kit worth changing your Osram Xenophot A1 231/ 232 for!!
Anything else, don't bother, it simply ain't worth your time or effort!!

For home use, a Xenophot standard lamp coupled with a two blade shutter and a fast lens will fulfil the requirements for even the largest of HC screens with close to modern day video projector red rich lamp intensity standards to the eye.
For the home, nothing more could ever be desired or prove necessary.


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Last edited 11.29.2017 | Top

RE: H.I.D. conversion debate

#2 by Philip Murat , Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:51 pm

Hello Andrew,

This is a very good idea to open this TIP.

I have experienced HID conversion on my car . Installation was very easy even as it was necessary to replace both front headlights for items with a concentrator lens already fitted.
Kit is very compact and quite cheap , ballast has approx same size than a Computer HDD .Normal Power absorbed is very low , 35w each, efficiency is excellent.
Power Max at Starting is 55W, I max 15A, I normal 4,3A. Colour Temp is 6000K. Light 3200 Lumens.
Expected life is 3000hrs.

Installation of such a kit could be done in a Projector using suitable reflector and probably a UV Shield.
Output Wire is around 50cm .

An other solution should be to use some parts picked up from an old Videoprojector (Lamp + Ballast circuit). You can find some of them in failed condition on second hand market now and for few money. Often time Lamp and Ballast are serviceable, just DLP section is out of order.

Unfortunately, I have not enough time to put this project "above pile", but sure this idea is somewhere on left....

Phil



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RE: H.I.D. conversion debate

#3 by Andrew Woodcock , Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:16 pm

Yes Phil. All of which is true, but the point being is that the most suitable lamp for our machines and the one which brings about the desired traditional xenon proportions of lamp output brightness and whiteness onto our screens with the minimal of fuss is the Xenpow 150 lamp.

Built for the job already! Simple as that really and therefore pointless to conjure alternatives which then need further modifications to the actual machines lamp house by being of incorrect shape and size to begin with.

Everything else would be a compromise and wouldn't gain you much over the traditional better halogen lamps, if anything at all.

It's bad enough that somehow there is a market for these ridiculous headlamp alternative lamps for cars without any of us lot adding to the profits of the unscrupulous manufacturers that make these things.

How they can ever be classed as legal for our roads is quite beyond me!

These must surely only ever be used by THE most selfish of "I'm alright jack" type of car owners!

Usually your enormous luxury 4x4 crew driving around our tiny city streets!!


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RE: H.I.D. conversion debate

#4 by Maurice Leakey , Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:39 pm

The Xenpow 150 gives a brilliant white output. Mine is in a 16mm Bell & Howell model 644 which still looks unaltered after the conversion by Kevin Brown. As the fan for the original 1000 watt lamp is no longer required its removal gives room for the ballast (95 volts, after the initial high voltage strike.) A small fan was installed as the Xenpow is only 150 watt.

For the possible conversion of a Super 8 projector it may be necessary to install the ballast in a separate box or something similar as there probably would be insufficient room in the projector itself.



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RE: H.I.D. conversion debate

#5 by Andrew Woodcock , Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:10 am

I've heard of an SH 30 containing the ballast internally, but at the expense of removing the internal speaker.

I'd always prefer to have the ballast mounted in a separate box to the projector for any of my own Super 8mm machines, so I agree Maurice that this is the best way to configure the Super 8mm Xenpow H.I.D. converted machines.


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RE: H.I.D. conversion debate

#6 by Philip Murat , Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:16 pm

Hi Andrew,

Not sure to clearly understand your comments on HID Kit conversions for cars, but I experienced this installation for 7 years ago now , and 3 Periodic Technical Certifications later, I have got no problem with that.
First , it is very, very important that Beams Levels is correctly adjusted , and may be just slightly below normal level, as there is no Automatic Level Correction.

However, it is true that some modern cars incorporating this configuration since new including an Automatic Correcting Level, are showing misfunctionning Level adjustment and sometime between Lh and Rh sides.
No Automatic Level Control installed can be better than a Bad Automatic Level Control device installed ........

Concerning XENPOW HID 150W , I observe Kit prices are going competitiv now.

If somebody can put some pictures from their conversion , that should be great...

Phil


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RE: H.I.D. conversion debate

#7 by Andrew Woodcock , Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:47 pm

They are simply far too bright Philip for whatever could be deemed as being anything like safe from the perspective of the oncoming traffic.

This technology is perfect enough for lighting effects and projectors but to ever fit such devices into any motor vehicle is simply downright ludicrous and totally irresponsible and unsafe!!


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RE: H.I.D. conversion debate

#8 by David Ollerearnshaw , Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:41 pm

Is this what are used for ballast Ballast


I still love the smell of film in the morning


 
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RE: H.I.D. conversion debate

#9 by Maurice Leakey , Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:00 pm

David
Without opening up my Bell & Howell 644 I believe the ballast in it for its Xenpow HID150 is as per my attachment below.
http://www.lamps2udirect.com/metal-halid...id-lamps/143506


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RE: H.I.D. conversion debate

#10 by Andrew Woodcock , Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:03 am

The only real difficulty in installing one of these Xenpow lamps as a direct replacement to a halogen equivalent of identical physical size and shape, is not the lamp installation or even the ballast.
It is devising a neat, tidy and professional solution to the automated dowser from your existing switch and halogen lamp circuit plus the job of custom fitting a neat and tidy highly efficient low noise modern day computer fan for exhausting the circulating warm air from the lamp house even when the running projector mechanism remains stationary.

If you can confidently solve and tackle both of these obstacles with relative ease while ensuring the aesthetics of the projector remain relatively in tact, then the rest of the installation would be a doddle.

Only certain types of machines could be considered suitable for such an installation on any Super 8mm projectors.


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Last edited 12.01.2017 | Top

RE: H.I.D. conversion debate

#11 by Maurice Leakey , Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:36 am

Certain models of the 16mm Bell & Howell have a still device. This can be used to form a solid dowser with appropriate alterations to the mechanical and electrical connections. This is what Kevin Brown did with my B & H 644. This was done without making obvious outward signs of the alterations.
The only addition to be seen is the lamp On/Off toggle switch.


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RE: H.I.D. conversion debate

#12 by Andrew Woodcock , Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:42 am

How does this help protect the film during lamp warming time at the beginning of the film Maurice?

To allow the lamp to reach optimum temperature and brightness levels you'd need the dowser in place right up until lamp position is selected on the PJ.
That would have to include the thread position of the switch.

Has Kevin electrically reconfigured your main control knob to allow you to thread your film during lamp warming time Maurice with the dowser down at all times including thread up times, or does it just come into play when the machine is stationary?

One of the things that was completely hopeless about the original Beaulieu HTI models was that you needed about 50ft of leader to allow the lamp sufficient time to reach maximum brightness levels before the start of the actual film began.

This is where having an automated dowser connected electrically and electronically directly to the original main rotary switch lamp circuit gives you the entire control you desire to have the lamp at temperature before the film begins and already threaded safely without extra long leader, protecting the film at all times both when in motion and when motionless.

The absolute best optimum operating option of any and simulation of the exact same principles by which the ordinary halogen lamp mechanism works.


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Last edited 12.01.2017 | Top

RE: H.I.D. conversion debate

#13 by Maurice Leakey , Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:28 am

Connect projector to mains, the new small fan runs. The dowser is in lowered position.
Switch on lamp.
Wait for a few minutes.
Lace film, it's a manual thread projector.
Turn main control knob to "Run", motor starts.
When leader has run through turn main control knob to "Lamp". Dowser lifts up.
Enjoy the film.

Lots of complicated re-wiring was necessary. The perforated heat shield in the still mech was replaced with a solid piece of metal. The swing out condenser lens assembly had its glass removed and was re-functioned as the lamp holder.



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RE: H.I.D. conversion debate

#14 by Andrew Woodcock , Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:38 pm

Sounds like a wonderful conversion Maurice and works exactly as described given that it is a manual threading projector. 😊😊


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Last edited 12.01.2017 | Top

   

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