Madagasger Penguins Xmas caper.A question.

#1 by Tom Photiou , Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:31 pm

Hi all, i received my copy a few days ago and i love it. A funny and modern Xmas caper. Quality as i expected is top notch although there is a thin black line to the far right. Theres always something. However this really doesn't bother us. A quick clean up and its almost invisible.
My question is regarding the sound.
This is the first time i have bought a film with the Carlos fandango oxide sound stripe and i have to say i agree with everyone on both forums, the sound is "good" but not a patch on the old pre striped films we are use to. In fact the sound on the old columbia 400 footers knocks spots off this with its hiss. Its only good because we put it through a stereo pioneer amp & this clears things up very well. When we put Mickeys Christmas Carol through afterwards you can really hear how crap the oxide paste stuff is or whatever it is.
Has anyone on here re-recorded this short and made any improvement?
If so, anyone able to do another for a fee?


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RE: Madagasger Penguins Xmas caper.A question.

#2 by Paul Browning , Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:03 am

I have a theory about this Tom. I hear this a lot with the paste stripe, but most of the Walton stuff was also done this way but were pretty good overall and a lot of the Derann stuff too. The light brown almost orange/brown is more likely to be Agfa f5 paste stripe so was consistently good to very good. The darker stripe which came later was available at the time after the Agfa was withdrawn and was probably zonal. This was sometimes grey looking too. I believe the problem lies in the fact that the recording bias was not adjusted to the
new tape stripe characteristics. This is born out by the fact that most high end reel to reel machines (nagra) as an example could be set to a required bias for the end user preference, and a list usually supplied by the manufacturer. These machines used the same tape/ paste tape recording technology no different to a super 8mm projector in principle. I have a really awful paste stripe film with trailers as the subject, but the stripe looks like someone has dribbled the stripe on with teaspoon, truly dreadful. You may get a better record from your stripe if you increase the vu meter volumes to 1db, into the red. The stripe is normally on flat, but I believe its the new non adjustment of the equipment that is at fault here.


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RE: Madagasger Penguins Xmas caper.A question.

#3 by Mark Mander , Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:00 am

I've rerecorded the sound on mine and it improved the sound, it's always a good idea to record on the leader as a test first as some of the stripe was applied uneven, inspect it for lumps etc and smoothness and it should be fine to get a good result, Mark


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RE: Madagasger Penguins Xmas caper.A question.

#4 by Andrew Woodcock , Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:47 am

The grey stripe definitely is distinctly inferior for audio quality,dynamic range and recording capabilities than the Brown Agfa pasted equivalent.

Grey can sound reasonably ok on a good day when recorded upon, but I've found it to be far more of a gamble than attempting the work even on lumpy crudely pasted Brown stripe personally.

Almost always, there is room for some improvement beyond what was originally given to us though.

I've had four copies of Mickeys Christmas Carol throughout the years Tom.
I've never known even one of them to have a scintillating original stereo track despite the fact I've heard far worse it has to be said.
Equally,I've never had one yet that isn't on brown stripe., pasted or laminated.
Even the pasted one's which are brown of these, can be improved upon beyond recognition.

You are now beginning to see just how important it can be at times, to have the facilities to record many of these later prints again Tom.

Without the ability to re record them again, much of the stock offered by Derann once Derek had sadly passed, leaves much to be desired in the sound department otherwise.

So far, I've left my Madagascar prints alone. Not because they cannot be made better,but simply because my time of late has hardly ever been allocated to recording duties and the likes, despite my more than ample backlog.


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RE: Madagasger Penguins Xmas caper.A question.

#5 by Mark Mander , Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:12 am

It also depends on the machine you use too, I have had four GS 1200's over the years and they do perform differently, I have two now and use one just for recording with , it's a very late machine and records superbly, the other is an early machine and not great so used to view films. I've had superb results with the paste stripe but I've taken precautions first to get them, you don't get the levels as the brown stripe but you do get a decent more refined stereo sound, Mark


 
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RE: Madagasger Penguins Xmas caper.A question.

#6 by Andrew Woodcock , Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:05 pm

I completely agree there Mark with your findings and overall assessment there!

I was surprised to hear your late version GS records better than your early model.
I've heard other owners of these machines saying the exact opposite ironically??

I suppose all of these things are individual in their own right. Who knows what servicing some may have had before we get our hands on these things also?
I believe the bias settings on these machines can be adjusted from an internal set of potentiometers for both tracks individually, so maybe a lot has to do with just how these things have been set up, both in factory and by some of the expert owners of these models that they invariably attract over the years.

I can imagine for example, if you were to purchase one from Bill, kevin Faulkner or Ugo let's say, you'd get a superb recording machine set up perfectly for the most part for the majority of striped film compositions.


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RE: Madagasger Penguins Xmas caper.A question.

#7 by Mark Mander , Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:48 pm

My GS had the recording capacitors replaced and other adjustments so would explain why it records so well, I had another machine done before but it's not as good as this one.

The early machine I have just doesn't record as well, it just doesn't have the smoothness and instant record of the later version, if you stop start the recording you can hear on playback where you've done it, due to the age of it i would just put it down to wear, the later machine is a 1989 built little used unit and doesn't have these issues, Mark.


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RE: Madagasger Penguins Xmas caper.A question.

#8 by Andrew Woodcock , Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:12 pm

Sounds like a really nice later GS, Mark, similar to the one Del has from around the same era I think.

I think one of your other machines , ended up with my good friend Keith, Mark?


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RE: Madagasger Penguins Xmas caper.A question.

#9 by Mark Mander , Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:41 pm

Yes Andrew it did, 8 or 9 years ago,that was a lovely machine and I think Keith still has it, I used to bump into him at the conventions but haven't seen him for a couple of years.



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RE: Madagasger Penguins Xmas caper.A question.

#10 by Andrew Woodcock , Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:53 pm

Yes Mark, last time I saw him and it, the GS was still very much a lovely machine! Both yourself and keith have done a grand job over the years at looking after this one. He had a Wittners shoe fitted to it and it has helped to keep all of his films in superb shape Mark.

I've had many a print from Keith over the years and all were in superb shape I was pleased to discover.


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RE: Madagasger Penguins Xmas caper.A question.

#11 by Mark Mander , Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:12 pm

Glad he still has it, at the time it was a very reluctant sale along with my film collection and projectors, a lot of collectors at the time got some great titles and machines, thankfully I bounced back and managed to start collecting again, Mark


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