RE: So have a read through this little lot, if you will!

#26 by Eivind Mork , Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:50 pm

Your experience is much appreciated, so thanks for your comments, and sorry again for the quotation I made from the mail.

There are many different types of plastic for 3D printing, but I do not know in which way the result will be different.



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RE: So have a read through this little lot, if you will!

#27 by Paul Browning , Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:58 pm

Hi Bill, I have the derann gs xenon machines, did you convert them, if so I have a pattern, but would change anything about there design ?. I think the rollers on the Fumeo
are better because they have radii both sides of the guide, virtually eliminating any contact with film, a very good idea in my opinion. Feel free to PM Bill if you want.


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RE: So have a read through this little lot, if you will!

#28 by Andrew Woodcock , Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:08 pm

I would imagine there must be hundreds of cheap silent and broken basic sound projectors that could be purchased for very little that would at least have some functional and perfectly serviceable plastic rollers within them to use as a donor.

The 3D parts really do need to made somewhat smoother I'd say based on the parts I have received from Edwin, to be used as part of the actual film path.

I don't know anything like enough surrounding this relative new technology to understand whether or not finer polymers can be utilised to make the surface texture of the finished product comparable to original parts.

Hopefully, maybe someone like Thijs can bring us all up to speed on this one?


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RE: So have a read through this little lot, if you will!

#29 by Andrew Woodcock , Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:14 am

I did have a look into the available spare parts for your machine last night Eivind from Van Eck, but having listened carefully to Bill's advice, I think you'd be best advised to wait until Bill has received and then tested the MK 2 versions of the guides with the extra rollers fitted.

As things stand, Bills advice will be paramount here by saying, the current best method to virtually guarantee a scratch free path on a GS with aging worn guides, would be to modify the original using extra rollers.
For that you would more than likely need a non functioning cheaper donor machine.
(Not necessarily a GS 1200 btw)

With this and the metal shoe, as said, I'd expect you'd be fine in forward projection mode only, however, bear in mind Bills drawing illustrated around 7 potential black spots that can be problematic over time, so due diligence would still be required at all times without first examining the guides in close detail to assess the existing wear at this point in time.

Let's hope the MK II versions address the issues here! 😊

In my experiences in this hobby, one or two mishaps on highly valued prints can be a huge turn off for the pastime of screening real film and many decide to bail out because of it! (Nearly myself on a few occasions!)
By avoiding these experiences at all cost, by taking all the necessary precautions and preventive measures required, this hobby will never lose its appeal to anyone who has a vested interest in it to begin with.

You build on your collection slowly but surely, your collection goes from strength to strength, you have full confidence in screening any film you like as often as you like and you arn' t continually throwing money down the drain, most importantly!


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RE: So have a read through this little lot, if you will!

#30 by Eivind Mork , Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:41 am

Thanks a lot for checking this, Andrew! I don't have many quality films. Just a very few. So they are the ones I worry about, Most of the other films are quite common and cheap and have their wear. Not that I want any more damage to them, but it would not be the end of the world if this should happen. The North by Northwest is something very different, and I will not have anything happen to it :-)

I don't have a metal shoe. I bought a new 3D printed part from van Eck. Is the metal one much better? At least it is much more expensive :-) (But then again my films are more expensive than the shoe). I have his new part with rollers on. Worked great so far, but I hear what Bill says and is very interrested in the Mk II version.

Getting a donor machine would not be the most wife friendly thing I could do. The fifth projector is still standing on the floor in the livingroom and I am not gathering bonus points at the moment :-)



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RE: So have a read through this little lot, if you will!

#31 by Timothy Duncan ( deleted ) , Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:46 pm

LOL EIVIND!! Maybe you could decorate the projector in the living room like a Christmas tree late next month. :-)


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RE: So have a read through this little lot, if you will!

#32 by Bill Parsons , Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:49 pm

I should like to point out that although the metal input guides look as if they are a quality replacement they are not, once the plating wears off they are no better than the plastic guides, they are made of soft metal and wear in exactly the same way, a roller is the best bet.


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RE: So have a read through this little lot, if you will!

#33 by Andrew Woodcock , Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:01 pm

I had never heard that said before Bill! I know a few who have the modified metal shoe fitted, and each one said they were a big improvement!
I would have thought the recess would be deep enough to safeguard against even the the shoe plating wearing away, therefore still protecting the frame area?

Ah well, Thanks for that Bill, you learn something new everyday!!

Perhaps these would be better Made from Aluminium or Brass maybe?

The recess does appear very deep on these when seen in the flesh and they were only ever supplied when there was no alternative on the market once the original plastic ones had worn.

Not cheap though admittedly as nothing ever is from Germany!

1077-01_k.jpg - Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)1077-02_k.jpg - Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)1077-03_k.jpg - Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)

Now of course with 3D tech, we at least have an alternative, which can only be a good thing to give users a choice.


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RE: So have a read through this little lot, if you will!

#34 by Paul Browning , Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:53 pm

The chrome is only microns thick, and although it looks nice on car bumper on your classic, it does still wear away eventually. If film can wear it through to the base metal I would
imagine the metal ones are more dangerous when in full contact with the shiny surface of film. Anything moving over a fixed point will wear it to some degree, so the moving roller is the way to go, every time.


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RE: So have a read through this little lot, if you will!

#35 by Eivind Mork , Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:53 pm

First time I have heard this about metal shoes also. Interesting!



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RE: So have a read through this little lot, if you will!

#36 by Andrew Woodcock , Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:22 pm

But isn't the idea, by having such a deep recess, that this guide cannot ever come into contact with the films frame?
The stripe yes, but surely not the frame?
Admittedly though PTFE inserts would have been a better way to go, but surely the steel beneath must be of a smooth surface finish if these parts have been machined before chrome plating them Paul?


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RE: So have a read through this little lot, if you will!

#37 by Paul Browning , Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:39 pm

Agreed Andrew, but if you see one of those green guides and how they wear through in the place where the roller is fitted, the two sides of the vee groove is warn flat. Obviously
a lot of abrasion takes place there, just as the film is turning through the angle going into the first drive sprocket. I have not had the metal one for my GS because of the modified
one's already fitted, so I don't know the time scale of this happening, but according to the latest comments this still will happen, I must say I'm surprised at this revelation, but
thankful its out there.


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RE: So have a read through this little lot, if you will!

#38 by Paul Browning , Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:50 pm

Attached pictures:
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 DSCF0024.JPG   DSCF0026.JPG 

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RE: So have a read through this little lot, if you will!

#39 by Andrew Woodcock , Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:53 pm

Thanks Paul, these type of photographs are really useful for our members here to highlight the possibilities of extended use of the machines and then exactly what can be done to resolve this.Excellent post thanks Paul, and just what it needs for acute awareness all around!

The spoken word and knowledge shared is everything with all of this!


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RE: So have a read through this little lot, if you will!

#40 by Paul Browning , Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:14 pm

You can clearly see where this guide would scratch the film, and how it would mark both sides of the frame, the roller is in this troubled area, and that even plastic against the film
surface will abrade through, you still need to keep this roller guide moving at all times, or the same will happen again. A very good and effective modification by the good guys in this
hobby .


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RE: So have a read through this little lot, if you will!

#41 by Del Phillipson ( deleted ) , Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:17 pm

Mines like the one on the right Paul (with the roller), the other photo is scarey.


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RE: So have a read through this little lot, if you will!

#42 by Andrew Woodcock , Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:14 am

So in accordance to this particular seller overseas, this particular print has only ever been ran through his projector twice. If this is the case, based on how this thread began life with the "Hallmark" or "trademark" of certain machines, these images are particularly disturbing!
All that money to show twice, for it to then look like this!!
Worrying, isn't it?

s-l1600 (1).jpg - Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)s-l1600 (2).jpg - Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)s-l1600 (3).jpg - Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)s-l1600.jpg - Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)

Notice that very same curvature shape in the scratch that I was speaking of.

Yet still eventually, another £680 print no doubt!

Whilever sellers can fetch this kind of money for prints that are far less than perfect, what chance do we have, with any of these warnings within this thread making their way through to the end users of such items?

Very little, I am sad to say.

It's one thing to have a tolerance to the odd scratch here or there, but its a completely different matter accepting this as the norm, because it is very much not!


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RE: So have a read through this little lot, if you will!

#43 by Andrew Woodcock , Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:10 am

Thanks Del & Gwyn for your reaction to this alarming state of current affairs.
To everyone else, I am surprised this does not cause you ANY issue for concern.

Really really surprised if I'm honest, and quite an eye opener here!

Anyhow, there are no shortage of examples that regularly surface from end users that simply never ever learn.

I am sure it won't be too long at all before the next example surfaces very very soon and very very disappointingly!!

Be sure, I will continue posting them until finally people begin to get the message!!

If we are to claim we are film lovers, then we need to demonstrate as much.
Sorry if this means at times, you will have to put your hand into those very deep pockets!

The alternative, completely safe way of screening is out there as we have seen only this week.
Did anyone show any interest except Del and maybe Alan with this?......
No surprises....no they did not. ...sigh.

My oh my .....


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