Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#1 by Andrew Woodcock , Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:25 pm

Work In Progress Vidar...Honest!

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"C'Mon Baggy, Get With The Beat"


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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#2 by Vidar Olavesen , Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:35 pm

Feel a bit bad to put this work on you, but it is highly appreciated. Thank you


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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#3 by Andrew Woodcock , Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:10 pm

Don't feel bad Vidar, if it involves anything audio/ visual, it is work i enjoy!
Challenging and frustrating at times , but nevertheless enjoyable at the end!


"C'Mon Baggy, Get With The Beat"


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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#4 by Tom Photiou , Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:04 pm

Feel the bad Vidar, poor Andrew


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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#5 by Andrew Woodcock , Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:44 pm

I'll cope Tom! ha ha ha

What is some people say?...a bad day's fishing beats a good day at work!


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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#6 by Tom Photiou , Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:09 pm

Ive not heard that one one before but it's good.


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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#7 by Gwyn Morgan , Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:19 pm

Wow what an excellent piece of kit you have there Andrew,you must have the patience of a saint to do that,not something I have ever attempted,all praise to you.👍👍👍📽


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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#8 by Tom Photiou , Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:24 pm

BTW Andy, putting that projector that close to DVDs will give it worts,


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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#9 by Andrew Woodcock , Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:09 pm

It's just a labour of love for me Gwyn, that's all.

Since a very early age i've always been fascinated with anything electro/ mechanical and anything audio/ visual.

My mum tells me I could tell her the name of songs on her 78rpm records well before I could read just by memorizing the labels. ha ha.
She tried to catch me out by throwing a Dean Martin purple Capital one against another, it still didn't work!

The difficult part is still to come yet Gwyn..syncing the newly made digital master to the film. So i've achieved nothing as of yet on this one until tomorrow hopefully.


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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#10 by Eivind Mork , Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:59 am

How do you sync the sound, Andrew? Do you have a sync pulse on one channel?



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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#11 by Stuart Bowling , Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:24 am

very cool...


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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#12 by Andrew Woodcock , Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:21 am

the method has been previously well documented on here Eivind, but in brief again....

For the time being at least, I have not been able to source or find anyone who is prepared to build me a sync box similar to RM 8008 "Pedro" box and accompanying internal projector controlling circuit board.
So basically I rely on the equipment you see in the images above that was once used for VJing.

It gives you the ability to playback sound and video files and adjust the speed "on the fly" by anything from -6% to +6% to -100% to +100% by use of linked hardware controller with physical sliders to control these miniscule incremental drifts while recording.

Cleverly it locks the pitch down while giving you the ability to adjust the tempo so voices etc don't sound like "Pinky & Perky"!


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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#13 by Eivind Mork , Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:55 am

Thanks! Sorry. I could have made a search for it. That sounded like a cool peice of hardware but difficult to make good :-) I must do some googling to find my options for syncing with the GS 1200. I have an Asterix film in German I plan to record English audio for. I am interrested in the technical part, so this is something I'd like to try myself :-)



 
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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#14 by Andrew Woodcock , Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:59 pm

All done now Vidar I'm pleased to say. If I get chance first thing in the morning, I will post it out to you and Hugh of course, if not (because I know the wife wants us to go shopping tomorrow), it'll be on my gap day between Days and Nights in my normal job! Ha ha.

It was far more tricky than normal working only from another film but if nothing else, it proves it can be done. It's something I've never attempted before.
Obviously the sound quality is a far cry from what can be achieved by recording again from modern day digital tracks, but it is serviceable at least now.

The end theme tune of course doesn't quite marry up with U8 logo, but that is only because your ending was different to the version Hugh has.
On his, he has the extra end credits as the windmill pans out.
Yours just goes straight from the end scene into the U8 logo??

Anyhow, I hope its good enough for you Vidar, it's certainly a whole lot better than when I received it! 😁😀

As a future pointer, where it appears you may have gone wrong with this particular one is that you began recording as soon as you saw the opening U8 logo.
This is an usual print in so much as the start of the soundtrack begins mid way through the introduction of the logo??

The giveaway sign was the original single blank frame and sound beep mid logo that was originally created for the manufacturer to begin there own synchronized recordings.
I thought this may be useful information to you Vidar as I don't think there was much wrong at all with your recording, it simply wasn't in sync because you started your recording a little early.

The GS 1200 keeps excellent sync and runs a very consistent speed so otherwise, I reckon it would have been spot on my friend!


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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#15 by Andrew Woodcock , Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:46 pm

Eivind, using your GS 1200 and sync pulse unit with it, guarantees synchronicity @ 25fps when hooked up to a DVD player with the exact same replica footage as your film and so long as you start your recording at precisely the right moment.

Sync boxes can still be purchased for your machine from places like FFR Filmteknik over in Germany.


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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#16 by Vidar Olavesen , Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:20 am

It is the precisely start process that is very difficult. There should be possible to set a sync mark at any position, PC hooked up and when the sync mark comes, the PC should start the playback and projector start recording. Then I would be able to also

Now it just feel scary


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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#17 by Paul Browning , Sat Aug 13, 2016 6:05 pm

Vidar have you got the remote unit for the gs 1200 ?, this can give you better response time to switch on the Elmo. The filmtek 25 fps sync box will automatically switch on
to drive when it gets the beep sound from your sound track, if you cue up the dvd and film frames to gate, it can be done and it will as Andrew says hold sync perfectly. Obviously
the film edit has to match the dvd edit or it won't work out very well. You can get a signal generator to do the same and lock the GS to this at 25 fps square wave, audacity can do
this too, but I think the output from a computer may not be high enough to drive the pulse meter on the Elmo. Again you may need a separate external sound card to do this to get
it up the line level to cd output, which does work well.


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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#18 by Andrew Woodcock , Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:28 pm

wise words of wisdom there Paul!

Holding sync on any D.C. electronically driven machine, really isn't that much of an issue without a sync pulse unit. So long as you have a method of locking down a digital track with extreme precision to an actual projectors true running speed on any given day, it can be quite amazing how long the digital track and isolated projector can keep in sync with one another!

I've easily had 400ft plus runs from my set up.
On more than a few occasions, I've even had a full 600ft part to a Derann feature without pause on some occasions!

The issues comes when you're forever having to patch over because the digital copy IS NOT a direct replica of the film you have.

I've still managed to "patch" in these circumstances and Vidar's film was very much a case of patch upon patch, but with patience, things can still be done..just about


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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#19 by Vidar Olavesen , Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:49 pm

Yes, I actually have it, Paul ... Somewhere. Bought from CHC a few years ago, never used it, just wanted it. Machine is positioned so the cord was too short, after that t was put aside, along with the sync box

When I get all stuff sorted, I will give it a try on Goofy's Glider

Thanks for the tip


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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#20 by Eivind Mork , Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:28 pm

I have a hope of getting English sound on my Asterix 400'. I don't have an exact replica. My plan is as follows:
1. Record the film with a video camera. That will include any lost frames etc.
2. Create a new audio track on the computer based on an other film. This is much easier as one can try and fail rapidly and compare images of two films while cutting etc.
3. Use the new audio track to record on the film.

Wouldn't that be easier, Andrew comparing to patching while recording?



 
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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#21 by Andrew Woodcock , Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:39 pm

It sounds very similar to what I just did here for Vidar's film.

It is lot of endeavour for about 17minutes of film, and it can never be the same as working from an exact digital replica in its results from both an audio quality standpoint as well as a perfectly timed replica, but if it is a film you really want to hear in English, then it's certainly an option if you have the patience to see it through Eivind.

Patching is just something I've regularly found myself doing even when sometimes I have an exact replica if I've estimated the timing slightly incorrect. Often this can be hardly anything on the entire run, but it's still enough to witness some drift.Then I go back to the last good scene and begin again from there. Eventually it comes good.

It may be worth doing a slightly easier project for practice first though. Say a complete 200ft cartoon where you can find an exact replica on DVD or You Tube and the likes. Just a thought.


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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#22 by Eivind Mork , Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:44 pm

It would probably be easier to start with a short one. But we'll see. At the moment I have too much going on for any recording :-)



 
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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#23 by Andrew Woodcock , Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:48 pm

One for the future then Eivind.
It's funny really, some days are easier than others. Pulse sync of course ensures a much easier route so it should be easier still than my methods by using your
GS 1200.

The secret with any of this is just to keep going. There is no limit to how many times you can record. Don't think if it doesn't go well on run one, that the film is ruined. Just try again until you master the method.

A good set of tips are;

1/ to learn your own personal reaction time. I've learned my own is almost always 0.4 of a second.
I see a frame I'm seeking hit the screen and so long as I've cued the digital track 0.4 seconds in front, once the recording has begun, so long as the speeds are matched, sync is obtained.

2/ Never use the recording red button on your projector to start an actual recording, always the superimposition knob or slider.
You gain seamless transition this way.
The recording red key on any projector should be depressed well in advance. About a minute before so you get chance to prepare yourself for your recording start point.

3/ Do a trial run prior to recording any sequence so you learn and memorize the scene your working on well in advance.

4/ Keep the knob or slider at zero until you see your start point appear, then raise the knob or slider to maximum as quick as you possibly can while simultaneously pressing your start key for your digital track.

5/ By keeping the superimposition knob or slider at zero with your red recording button depressed, none of your original track will be erased until you raise it.

6/ Timing is everything and the key to regular success and development of the skills required along with practice, of course.


"C'Mon Baggy, Get With The Beat"


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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#24 by Andrew Woodcock , Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:54 am

Any news yet Vidar?? Has it arrived back with you now?

Hugh reliably informs me he has his back now Vidar, so at least that's some good news here!😊


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RE: Work In Progress Vidar...Honest! :))

#25 by Vidar Olavesen , Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:22 pm

No, nothing yet. No mail on Saturday in Norway anymore, so crossing my fingers for Monday or Tuesday. Thank you so much, Andrew, you are amazingly kind


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