RE: Have I missed something?

#51 by Vidar Olavesen , Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:55 pm

I can set which forum parts to be displayed to set people (Guests, members, admins and so on) ... We can close down most of the forum, leaving a certain (Film Talk in General?) open for example.


 
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RE: Have I missed something?

#52 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:56 pm

I can't figure that one either Gwyn, the first forum I ever joined was the SFFF, only to let a member know of a film he was chasing
was on ebay, I then joined 8mm forum, but had plenty of input to both, upset a few, but it sells papers, anyway, my point is, if I was
just going to "lurk", well, its like attending a meeting but you can't comment, why bother.



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RE: Have I missed something?

#53 by Gwyn Morgan , Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:08 pm

Yes I think I will leave this to Vidar,but I think whatever happens it will please some,upset others.but that's the way it is. 📽 I


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RE: Have I missed something?

#54 by Vidar Olavesen , Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:16 pm

I am leaving it to the majority. David will start a vote and I only want the same vote as you, whatever the outcome, it is what most people want


 
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RE: Have I missed something?

#55 by Tom Photiou , Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:17 pm

Thats not a bad idea, i think th other forum has this, you can find the forum and see whats available, I.E the menu, (film talk, general talk etc), but if you click on one you have to login.
This would weed out the timewasters and tossers who are just looking to see what they can get on ebay or generally being a weirdo as you say Hugh, lurking in the background with there rain macs on.
You know who you are hehe


 
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RE: Have I missed something?

#56 by Michael Lattavo , Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:39 am

I do aplogogize, apparently I get as upset as the rest, just for the unpopular side of the argument. It just really pisses me off to get comments such as "you only post twice a month, are your fingers sore?" Or "you're not a contributor, look at me, I'm so great I've posted 300+ times in the past 4 weeks!".

I've been trying to post more. I work a lot. Have a 6yr old, 3yr old and 7mo old. Excuses, excuses, I know. Sometimes, I don't have anything to say. Sometimes, I glance through and don't see any topics that interest me.

I agree that only members should have full access. I don't agree that we need a police group who sits around counting how many posts each member has written, then passing judgement and making stupid sarcastic remarks.



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RE: Have I missed something?

#57 by Andrew Woodcock , Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:45 am

Once is just enough here Michael, just remember that!

So long as we know you have a pulse and a heart for all of this... that is enough my friend!


"C'Mon Baggy, Get With The Beat"


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RE: Have I missed something?

#58 by Andrew Woodcock , Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:00 am

I've been there Michael, with the youngsters Michael ,and I know exactly how demanding your life will be right now.
Your family is everything, never forget that, we will still be here waiting for you to return so long as you simply remain interested!
For some we will simply never know that fact. That's all.
Thanks for that all who simply never bother to acknowledge a single thing unlike Michael here, who has a genuine reason to have his hands more than full right now!!!

Again, what a sad sorrowful state of affairs we are in right now!!!!!


"C'Mon Baggy, Get With The Beat"


 
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RE: Have I missed something?

#59 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:00 am

No one was sitting in judgement of you Michael, you entered the fray, our concern is with long term members that can post elsewhere, but have never posted here since sign up, not with folk that post occasionally like yourself, but the ones who never do, we don't need them. Therefore the way forward is to give fair warning, if no response, adios, no loss, they aren't banned, they can rejoin, but it is a forum, not Facebook. We appreciate your input and giving your time spaced between bringing up a young Family, but the concerns are with the people who are non contributors.



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RE: Have I missed something?

#60 by Robert Crewdson ( deleted ) , Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:25 am

It's not a competition Michael to see who posts the most. Only, some members only seem to come to life when we bring up a subject like non contributors, or leaving the EU, or a bad trader. I have more free time than you so I can post more. Surprised though that the majority of subjects don't interest you and that's why you seldom post.



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RE: Have I missed something?

#61 by Robert Crewdson ( deleted ) , Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:39 am

I think Gwyn's idea is an excellent one. Non members can read some of the posts to get an idea of what we are about, then sign up if they want full access.



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RE: Have I missed something?

#62 by Andrew Woodcock , Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:48 am

It would be interesting to find out exactly what aspects of the hobby DO interest Michael.
After all we do cover a cross section of film and equipment on 8mm and 16mm gauges and even 9.5mm gets an occasional mention as Steve has just highlighted this morning.


"C'Mon Baggy, Get With The Beat"


 
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RE: Have I missed something?

#63 by Eivind Mork , Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:50 am

As I have said before, I think that in the long run we should keep the forum open. That would be the best. But it would not be a big problem to lock down parts of the forum to non-members. It is important, though, to keep some parts of it open so new people can see what this is all about without registering.

I have no doubt, though, that a lot of people will register with or without the purpose to get access to the locked down parts, and then we don't hear anything from them. I don't worry about those who actually do not intend to do anything more. But I worry about two tings:

1. People like Michael who feel he is close to being kicked out, but have a seriously busy family life or other good reason not to post many times a week. I know you better than to believe you want to kick him out for this reason. But what about people who never say anything about why they don't post so much? And I must admit that this has stressed me a little as well. I don't post THAT much, more than nothing, but like with Michael, Robert has posted more in a month than I have done since I joined more than a year ago. Where does the limit go before I am in trouble? As I said I know you better than to think I am in trouble for my post count, and I know I won't be deleted. But the signal this sends tells me I should have done more. This is the time I have with a family and other obligations. If I had participated less and known you less than I do now, it is a fair chance I would have thought "I can't do more, so I better just leave since I don't post enough".

2. When this has gone on for a while, I presume the rumors about the policing will have spread to other forums. This could hurt us in the way that new members is scared off joining the forum. I think especially of new people like me a couple of years ago with no experience. If I had to choose between a forum known to kick out people who didn't post enough (the way the rumor could spread like), and a forum with no rules, I am 100% certain I would choose the one that (at the time) seemed like the most friendly one. It would not matter that I might be wrong and that this IS the most friendly one, since I would never know.

So, what is my point? I have voted before not to close down or kick people out. But it is not very damaging to close down parts of it. It is worse to kick people out. What IS very important, crucial in fact, is how we communicate this. This rules must be crystal clear. Everybody must understand how this works. And it must be done in such a way that people like Michael with a very busy family life is not stressed and just leave. I am not sure how this should be done, but it is SO easy to miscommunicate this.

And I think that this recurring subject is just as damaging to the forum as the actual rule change. We see how heated the debate gets every time. So it is best to get this dealt with quickly so we can move on.

So my suggestion to get the heat down and move on:
1. Lock down much of the forum, but leave the General film talk open so new members see how the forum is and want to join.
2. The rules for being kicked out should be very clear so no one get surprised.
3. People should be reminded about the rule before being kicked out. This should be a standard text that is well formulated in a friendly way sent as a Private Message by a mod/admin. We want them to post more, not to scare them off with a "death sentence".
4. The rules should not be very strict. Why not start with those not posted a single post in, let's say 3 or maybe 6 months? We can discuss this, but my point being that I suggest we started a bit relaxed so people with a low count don't fear the post count at the end of every week. It is very easy to do this too hard and send a bad signal. If after a while we think the rules is too soft it is easy to tighten it. It is much worse to start hard, get a lot of mad and/or hurt people leave and spread FUD to every film collecting friend they have, and THEN we loosen up the rules and the damage is done.
5. We need someone with a diplomatic touch to write these rules. People must understand that we first and foremost encourage them to participate more, even if they are new to the hobby. It must be clear WHY we do this, and that the purpose is to get a forum that is alive where everybody is encouraged to participate since otherwise the forum would be nothing. It must be done in a way that don't leave us look like grumpy old men.
6. The mods and admins should have a private forum hidden to the rest of us. There they can keep each other informed about who sent what to whom, and who deleted whom to avoid confusion between the admins. We don't want all the admins to send the same private message to the same person. There they can also discuss between them before deleting an account. Such discussions in the open does not look good, but discussions between mods is a good thing. Two persons think better than one (my experience as a mod on an other forum).

But now the sun is shining outside. I'll bring a cup of coffee and enjoy the nice weather after all the rain lately :-)



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RE: Have I missed something?

#64 by Eivind Mork , Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:17 am

My goodness, I write some long posts... I would do better off with a word count rule ;-)



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RE: Have I missed something?

#65 by Andrew Woodcock , Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:23 am

Let's just keep one thing clear among all of this discussion,

Not Vidar, David, Hugh, Robert, myself nor anyone else here, wants anyone removed or restricted access for only posting occasionally.

These guys with busy lives but genuine interest in film are not, and will never be, under any threat to lose their full membership status here.

Once we know you exist and that you're an actual real living being, your status here is,of course, protected.


"C'Mon Baggy, Get With The Beat"


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Last edited 07.04.2016 | Top

RE: Have I missed something?

#66 by Robert Crewdson ( deleted ) , Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:25 am

No one was getting at Michael, the criticism was aimed at those who still have not contributed anything since joining up, some since 2015. I believe Michael also belongs to 8mm Film tech Forum, so maybe that explains why he doesn't have so much time to post here. I think this forum has covered almost everything from Blackhawk prints to Vinegar Syndrome.



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RE: Have I missed something?

#67 by Robert Crewdson ( deleted ) , Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:31 am

I am busy at the moment so haven't had time to read all your comments Elvind, but neither yourself or Michael were ever near to being thrown out. Elvind, you are a highly valued member of this forum. We understand people have commitments, and can't be here every day. The problem is the people who are not here at all, and never have been since requesting they are allowed to join us. We don't have thought police here, the worst for that is the other forum, where posts are being locked or deleted fairly regularly.



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RE: Have I missed something?

#68 by Eivind Mork , Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:35 am

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I know you didn't mean that I didn't post enough. I know you better than that. But for someone not being here as much as me it is easy to misunderstand. This is why we should pay such attention to how the rules are written down.

And Robert, no wonder you have to wait until you have more time before you read my post, since this was one seriously lengthy post :-)



 
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RE: Have I missed something?

#69 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:36 am

I think we have covered the spectrum of subjects appertaining to the hobby, and then some, we have a varied collection of films covered
with lots of pictures that can be revisited anytime to add further comment, even handy hints etc to make life easier, don't know how we
can improve on that only by some input from the Readers Digest Club. There is a limit to what a handful of us can contribute, we all have lives, responsibilities and duties to perform, but can among the hours in a day, find time to add a bit here and there, if only for five
minutes. Its a bit like giving a speech to an empty hall, I sometimes wonder, what's the point ?



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RE: Have I missed something?

#70 by Robert Crewdson ( deleted ) , Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:40 am

Hi Elvind, I am in the middle of trying my hand at making Chutney from a 70 year old recipe.



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RE: Have I missed something?

#71 by Eivind Mork , Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:41 am

Quote: Robert Crewdson wrote in post #70
Hi Elvind, I am in the middle of trying my hand at making Chutney from a 70 year old recipe.

Has it got a vinegar syndrome yet?



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RE: Have I missed something?

#72 by Robert Crewdson ( deleted ) , Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:43 am

Yes, Elvind. Regarding Hugh's comment about membership to a Karate Club, I think if you didn't turn up you would be given the chop



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RE: Have I missed something?

#73 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:59 am

I don't know where Michael would think he is in fear of his membership, he contributes, not as much as we'd like, but he does what he can, his pictures of his outdoor set up were spot on, the ones with his little lad were brilliant, I suppose we're greedy and want more,
but the man is a contributor, the "Readers Digest Club" are not, not a single comment, they all get welcomed, then not even a thank you.
No contributions in over a year, no excuse. Very droll Robert, Elvind, I'll bet he can remember that recipe being written, Heh Heh.



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RE: Have I missed something?

#74 by Robert Crewdson ( deleted ) , Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:25 pm

The recipe is not working out, so I think I need to try again another day.



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RE: Have I missed something?

#75 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:13 pm

The heading Robert, Have I missed something?, I would check the recipe again, check your Red Wine vinegar, your purees etc,
Good job your better half is not present, she would no doubt sort it in a jiffy.



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