Just your thoughts on this one,
i have noticed on the other forum that some collectors,(mainly in Europe), are selling off some very sought after prints,(including Die Hard)
Now then, if i owned just a few of these titles i would be holding on to them for dear life but at the moment it's one big title after another coming up for sale. Unfortunately, they are way above what i will pay for a movie, but i'm wondering, are these chaps selling off the good stuff while they are fetching the loony money or are they getting out now because they think these values will slide?
Titles include First men on the moon, Raiders feature, Poltergeist, Aliens feature. All great stuff and going for big bucks. If i could really justify an average of £300-£500 i would buy, but three films is over a grand gone, i just simply cannot justify it. I have always said i will treat myself up to one more really good feature when one comes up but my tops is 250 and it would have to be a dam good title.

I have no idea, but it just occurred to me that if many good titles are out there now and areq very expensive, maybe the collectors have to sell another great title to get the one they just have to own?

I dont think the titles come much better or more expensive than some of these To be honest, its been said before, aside a couple of big titles such as raiders/silence of the Lambs the rest are not rare, there were shed loads printed but people are quite rightly holding onto them,(as i would), which obviously dries up the second hand market. I'm just a little surprised to see so many one after the other. I want very much to see some good Derann modern features, (all be it they are not so modern now), on the big screen, but if it means paying around 500 for one than i for one am more than happy to project on the same big screen via my blu-ray/DVD, its the same movie with the same ending, the difference its around £295-£400
Of course i would prefer the Super 8 copy but a sanity check is called for. (unless you have shit loads of dosh you can throw out) Deranns biggest selling film, (at the time i did my last Q & As in FFTC magazine) was Beauty and the Beast, so that is not a rare film, but you try and find one. Ours was £120 many years ago, today's a good one will probably be, at a guess, £250?
Like many i have bought films in the past and paid good money for them only to be so pissed off with either how red they are or how scratched they are and i end up either re-selling or returning them.

Some are bailing out at the moment Tom no doubting that. Since quitting the habit for fools, I generally pump the same money I spent, into film nowadays. This allows me for the most part a feature per month.
12 months ago if I had £1000 to spend on quality Super 8mm feature films of the kind I'm most interested in, I couldn't have spent it.
At the moment, if I had £5k to spend, it wouldn't be enough for what is available.

Maybe it is the end of the road for many long term collectors, who knows?

I'm not concerned personally because it has brought about a new almost more competitive market for those left in the hobby and those who will now probably remain interested and dedicated to it until they turn their toes.

I've never bought any of my films with the view they are going to make me any money.
I was always the same with my vinyl records. I was the foolish DJ of the late 80's who didn't sell them all while there was a premium price to be had from the masses.

Things like records and films and even football memorabilia are part of my DNA as far as I'm concerned. Why would I sell them?
Then what do I have to keep me contented in my life? ( human beings aside you understand.)

Last look in, there were 8 yes 8! GS 1200s on e bay without any global searching!
When did you last see that in the same week?
None had 29 bids either!!
As said, for anyone's unfulfilled ambitions here, I feel we are entering exciting times ahead.😊😊

Yeah agree with that, i only sell bits to raise money for new, have to say i will only sell my collection if my health became an issue and i could no longer use it, (hopefully i am a way off with that at 54),
Defiantly still enjoy buying bits and pieces but as far as a good feature is concerned, there are only a few titles i would like that i know will turn up at some point but the sanity check for me stays.

Hmmmm !!! I wonder if more film collectors are jumping ship and going over to entirely digital
projection ? Hence the increase in those prints and projectors for sale.

I hope you stick with it Tom. I have no doubt if you see things through until the bitter end, most of what you have been after all of these years now, will surface for old school Derann used list prices.

It would be a shame to throw the towel in this late on, you've been with it almost as long as Hugh and David here from what I remember reading.


Id imagine most people already have both means to screen films now David. It's not like when LCD Technology first came out and half of Derann's FFTC mags were dedicated to ads trying to persuade people to jump ship.
Both have been more affordable in many ways in recent years. Projectors that once costed almost as much as a car can be purchased for a few weeks wages now.

I think Tom had it nailed earlier, most seemingly just feel this is the right time and maybe the last occasion they can get the money they want for their collections. to a degree, it may be true, but just as Tom points out, when you're talking £400 to £500 or even more in some cases for one film, many of those who are still left, think twice!
We've all been around the block a little now!

At a pinch, i'd pay it as a one off,especially to complete a collection, but by God it had better be in Tip Top condition for that amount of dough.

Hey Andy, defiantly not throwing in the towel, just a little bemused at some of the bits coming up but equally disappointed at what there fetching, i think its bonkers, we are in for the long haul, like you and most other collectors we never see our collection as an investment, which is why i wont pay these sorts of money, i will buy when i see something i want at a price i think its worth. i am currently putting my attention into servicing and getting our projectors up to there highest standard.
i wonder how many people are paying the big bucks for top titles but not putting so much effort into there projectors which, if not maintained to our fussy standards could make those films lose an awful lot of there appeal.

Hey those are top drawer words of wisdom there Tom!
You are so right my friend, before you get the "Now" £600 features, let's make sure the gear is worthy for looking after it for when we do get em for reasonable "collectors" prices!

Liking you're way of thinking here Tom.

I've had the best twelve months of any I've had since being back in the game so to speak. I've not had one thing let me down this year or the back end of last, but I know my luck won't last forever and I always firmly keep my eyes peeled on the projector side of things.

My mentality is different from peoples like Hugh's here. Hugh, rightly so, always placing the greater emphasis and importance on the films themselves. Of course he is right, but the difference being, as I've always been heavily interested in anything electro mechanical from as far back as I can remember, just like you Tom staring at that 16mm projector at school, I have equally had a fascination for the machines themselves and learning all I can about their inner workings and design concepts.

Probably a bit perverse to some collectors, but I'm not joking, I can happily sit watching videos I see showing nothing but projectors in run. i find them truly fascinating. Of course I love watching the films as the next man does, but unlike video projection, there are two things I could watch with interest if I had eyes in the back of my head!

my impression is they most likely need the the money.

Maybe the amount of money makes it too difficult to not sell. I hold onto my prints, but if my eyesight goes, I will have to sell. Ugh, I dread the day when magic is no more. Maybe I keep a projector running in the background :-)

You may well be correct Clyde. Not exactly buoyant times over here at the moment. If I was still chucking 30 a day into my lungs, I doubt i would have been able to continue the way it was all going.

Look after those eyes Vidar! You are vital to your film collection and to us all here!!

Come back Hugh and have a word with "your little Viking" here, Please!!
Jeez,.. the guy's only been away for away for one day and the place just ain't the same.
Take that silly grin off your face baloo!
This ain't funny!!

OK Tom, here is a proposal...

How much is the Die Hard print you've seen?.
What kind of condition does it appear in?
Who is selling it?

If the above all answer in my favour and i can obtain it without any hassles here, what say you take my print on a sale or return basis.(not a free film hiring service you understand, but I feel I know you far better than that!)

It's on two 1200ft elmo jewel spools, it's in reasonable condition in so much as it has the odd blemish here and there but nothing ultimately that destroys the film and its enjoyment while projecting it. It comes with all the usual OTT artwork on the boxes etc and I'd offer it to you... only you , because I know how long you've wanted this print for, for £100 plus £40 for the spools if you want them. Otherwise, spools stay here and I'd have to fanny around putting back onto the original 5 x 600ft reels and it would include an extra splice of course on reel 3.

As said, it ain't perfect, but for £100 plus spools funding, I feel we are getting back to Derann "Used List" prices here for someone who deserves the print NOW, not in ten years time aged 64 with ailments pending! lol.
It's well worth the money though Tom, and I'd be losing out considerably on what I paid, but hey, who cares, it's not always about money.

I need a replacement first though pal.Funds are here if the print is spot on.

I have been shown a lot of charitable, fantastic spirit over on the other forum today by PM.
All credit to some of the wonderful people on there!
I feel the least I can do today is to try and pass some of this on to you here Tom!
No one deserves it more

Let me know what you think.

WOW Andrew.that is extremly kind of you but i could not let you do that. And i would wish to pay you more than than.at least what its worth.
The print for sale im sure is very good etc but the price is way up near 400 and i know the die hard title is brill but doesnt usually go for anywhere near that but thank you anyway.

Tom ...Yes guys it may simply be the case that the sellers of these prints and projectors need the money.
However I keep an open mind regarding this. The Video Projectors are not only cheaper than they
were some years ago but also much better quality.
Also a lot of our film projectors are getting older and with spares having to be cannibalised from
other machines. Add to that the lack of those with abilities and skills to service and repair the machines
in general. The only person I know on this forum is Bill Parsons who can do this for us in the UK.
So this may be a factor involved for those selling up. These machines are not going to run forever
and those capable of repairing them are not going to be around forever.
These are thoughts I have had for sometime now. I mean I don't want to find myself with hundreds
of reels of film that I cant even show and machines that are only good for display purposes.
I know this sounds a bit bleak for the future of our hobby but for me it may be a justified reason for
getting out of FILM collecting. What are your thoughts on this ?

It would be interesting to get some idea of the ages of those who are selling this stuff at the moment.

It certainly would David. A very interesting topic. I never though of buying films as an investment as I never had thoughts of parting with them. As time goes by will prices go up or down? For the majority of the younger generation, brought up in the digital age, who can watch restored movies on a home cinema, what's the attraction of watching a film costing many times as much, with imperfections. The present time is not a good one to sell vinyl, I sold half my collection and got a pittance. I could have got a much better deal on Ebay, but I didn't want the bother of buying special sleeves to protect LP covers, hoping they arrived in the condition they were sent out in. Our local Sainsbury are now stocking vinyl albums at £15 each, so maybe things will change.

I doubt personally that film could ever have the resurgence of even what has been seen of vinyl in recent times, unless things change drastically on the new product aspect.
We are apparently promised new film product from Ferrania and new cameras from Kodak, but even then, it cannot and will not be like the Super 8mm I have always known and adored.

It will after all, be a digital and film fusion regarding the technology used , plus the whole concept of why it would be chosen in this era.
The idea is you shoot on film, record the sound on digital within the camera onto a memory stick, then transfer this lovely film image digitally onto pc software and integrate the recorded digital sound.
The concept then no doubt would expect any viewer to be viewing the completed piece on an LCD monitor or digital projector!

Unless when this new camera stock and cameras themselves are released., there is any demand and pressure put Kodak's way to use this stuff traditionally, I doubt Kodak would ever dream of bringing to market a Super 8mm Projector to watch these films on in the time honoured manner.

If traditional methods are somehow demanded and catered for in today's world, then perhaps, with new equipment available to show "real" film on, that may then lead to regenerated interest levels from those that buy this new equipment to obtain some of the original product in the same way has happened with vinyl records.

It is only from the likes of HMV marketing convenient suitcase styled stand alone record players like the "Cruiser" range, that has created the mass market interest that we currently have at the moment of their record sales.
It's given it all a new novelty and new lease of life again, to a brand new generation of people.

BTW Tom, offer stands forever, if you or I can find me another top notch print anytime for around £300 max ideally.
This one of mine is very very good, but you know what I'm like!

If you see a like new one around the price mark I speak of, please let me know Tom, then mine is yours if you want it.

Andy, i will thank you in advance & keep my eyes very peeled.

Those suitcase record players are like my sister had in 1962. I still have my stereo from 1971. It was nice to see 78rpm speed and stylus coming back some years ago before compact discs took over.

I had one that was my cousins before that Robert. Lovely little job it was, and it had a kind of hopsack weave effect to the deck and speaker area.
Turntable was the exact same size of a 45rpm record. 33 1/3rpm records used to overhang the the outer brown leather casing. It was a lovely little job. Must try and find a photo of it somewhere.

Exactly like the one my sister had Andrew, I forgot about the weave. I think the lid came off if you wanted to play LPs. It also had an adaptor that fitted over the spindle so that you could play ex jukebox records that had the centre punched out, rather like the American singles. I think back then it contained valves. I always remember the smell as it warmed up.

My sister also had one of those portable tape recorders that took 3 inch reels. They ran on batteries, which didn't last long.

Going back to Tom's earlier points here about "His sanity kicking in " whenever faced with a dilemma regarding an expensive print, isn't just about ANY reasonable quality film ridiculously priced to our general public?

I mean if I said to the "average Joe" in the streets, would you like to buy a copy of Die Hard, split into 5 separate parts for £20 which you can then watch by putting up a big white screen in your house, He'd think you were insane.

He'd turn around and remind me, as we all have been reminded, don't we know it!...., That you can get the " film " for £1 off a market stall and watch it all the way through at once without moving a muscle once you have placed it in a DVD player. Great picture, great sound he'd say. Would he be wrong?

The point I'm making here is at what point do we as collectors,think suddenly that a price level becomes insane?
How is it even determined given what I've just said?
Do we all differ in our perspective of this?
Why do we have the cut off points that we do?
In other words, are any of us really sane if we even took up the offer above at £20, let alone walk the path Paul B appears to be doing right now!

All of this really is food for thought given the fact, we all know, to the masses, there is a £1 alternative that is more convenient and better at it, as far as an audience other than ourselves here, is concerned.

for me personally, i have no logic to explain why I am prepared to pay up to 300 times what the DVD would cost me now for a print. I simply cannot say ultimately, what the driving force is, except to say it's something that now I have sampled it, I want more of it!
But can't that be said for any addiction?

Could it just be these constant "reality checks" like Tom gives himself here, that is leading to one or two leaving the hobby at the moment perhaps?
Maybe it's just the same for these people, as a smoker placing his packet on the mantelpiece, never to touch one again.