RE: BFCC 64 at Ealing on 02,04.2016

#51 by Dave Alligan , Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:25 pm

If Derek was still here today, Film labs North would not have closed, im sure he would have bought it and kept it open, Im sure Carlton would have sold it for a peppercorn amount.


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RE: BFCC 64 at Ealing on 02,04.2016

#52 by Tom Photiou , Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:41 pm

Agree with all on this, yes Derann was a main player but definatly agree with Hugh on the early general releases. Walton for us were tops in the early days, all our Walton prints we have now still have superb colours, re my review of Saturn 3 and The boys from Brazil and our feature, (thanks to Hugh), is still like new with vibrant colours. It was the later Derann releases that were tops. Post 80s.


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RE: BFCC 64 at Ealing on 02,04.2016

#53 by Andrew Woodcock , Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:29 pm

I like the Walton prints myself from the earlier years. Prints like "Fright" and "Revenge" still have lovely vibrant colour from the excellent Fuji stock they chose to print on from all those years way back. Great prints these, given the era they were produced!


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RE: BFCC 64 at Ealing on 02,04.2016

#54 by Paul Browning , Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:27 pm

Derann started striping film when Agfa had just sold there paste business, so the scramble to get any remaining stocks of the paste must have been a challenge too, so its
even more amazing they striped any film at all. I wonder where the german labs are getting this made now, and how much they need to buy to make it viable . The other paste
stripe they used, zonal, was a hit and miss sadly on fidelity even by tape standards of the time. This was probably around the time also that the digital technology was about to hit
us with the "indestructible" compact disc, and we all know now this was more than a little advertising spin, if you pardon the pun.


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RE: BFCC 64 at Ealing on 02,04.2016

#55 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:41 pm

Hi Paul, they wouldn't let Derek know the final ingredient of the formula of paste stripe, that was Kodak if memory
serves, so Derek persevered until he finally got it right, we do owe a lot to this man, I reckon he'd be rotating in his
grave at high speed if he'd known all that gear had been junked, stuff that could have helped keep things ticking over.



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RE: BFCC 64 at Ealing on 02,04.2016

#56 by Paul Browning , Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:22 am

I remember talking to Derek about this subject Hugh, he was bloody fuming about it, he knew he'd been stitched up like a kipper. There was no way the formula would have worked
and they knew it, bad show in my opinion from Kodak. It would definitely leave a bitter taste in your mouth considering all the money he spent on film from them, thanks very f***kin
much Kodak, you can stick your film where the sun don't shine.



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Last edited 04.09.2016 | Top

RE: BFCC 64 at Ealing on 02,04.2016

#57 by David Hardy ( deleted ) , Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:56 am

PAUL...Funny and coincidental that Digital is mentioned here.
CDs and DVDs and Blu-Ray discs are most certainly NOT indestructible as claimed
by the company's marketing hype.
I have been randomly checking some of my early and later CDs and there is now
evidence of ROT setting in. They have been looked after and well treated and stored
all this time but they are slowly destroying themselves.
The same for some DVDs. I intend to give a more intensive examination of these discs
after the dust settles on my house move. Those which are developing this syndrome
will be unceremoniously thrown in the bin.
SO MUCH FOR DIGITAL... EH !!!!



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Last edited Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:57 am | Top

RE: BFCC 64 at Ealing on 02,04.2016

#58 by Barry Attwood , Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:38 am

There was another factor, it was Derann's striper and sound machines, near the end when they were striping and sounding films themselves, they had to coax the machines into life each day, the striper was the best, but needed a major overhaul, but the sound machines needed to be run between 35-45 minutes each day to get up to speed, lets face it these were very old machines, with millions of feet of film put through them over the years. I believe this is why they just scrapped everything, it would have taken a major overhaul of all their equipment, and when Derann gave up printing their own films, they were just left to gather dust, and you know what happens to equipment like that when not used for a few years.


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RE: BFCC 64 at Ealing on 02,04.2016

#59 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:41 am

Very true Barry, I understand the recording heads had to be re aligned too, but he managed it with no help from the "big boys".
Regarding the aged machinery, well you only have to take a look at some of the very knowledgeable and skilled people on these
forums, keeping stuff running that is well past its sell by date is "grist for the mill " when you consider the projectors that are given
new leases of life by people like Bill Parsons and Snr Ugo Grassi, just two that spring to mind.



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RE: BFCC 64 at Ealing on 02,04.2016

#60 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:52 am

I have heard this David, if that is the case, you would think that there is cause for compensation or replacement here, the "ancient Neolithic" LP still
manages to survive, as do cassette tapes etc, indeed this hobby is based on collecting films that are 80 years old in some cases, but
the film base is still okay. Marketing men strike again, giving you something you already had, that was superior to the slick rubbish they
were foisting on us. Remember the "excuses" that were rolled out for records being phased out, "a shortage of Plastic", that should be up there with the hose pipe bans during Summertime, when it rains 3/4 of the year in Britain!



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Last edited Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:53 am | Top

RE: BFCC 64 at Ealing on 02,04.2016

#61 by Paul Browning , Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:36 pm

My view on those machines is that anything mechanical can be repaired, if the will is there to do so. After watching the last flight of the Vulcan bomber, which had crashed and
had to be completely rebuilt from parts sourced from displays around the country and world in some cases, and then to get it flying too, nothing is beyond the ability of humans
who put there brains to it. I wonder if someone had asked at the time of scrapping to take them on, Derann would have happily handed them over knowing what it would have cost to put them right ?, would they have handed over the sound tapes and negs too, we will never know now I guess. I would like to think so, having spoken to both Derek and Adrian
they were typical black country folk, very easy to talk to and friendly, there must have been some tough decisions at the end. A real shame in my opinion that there final resting place was in a skip.


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RE: BFCC 64 at Ealing on 02,04.2016

#62 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:46 pm

Sadly Paul, the negs etc were asked for, but refused and destroyed, that is why I'm annoyed, a very "dog in the manger" response
from the "flyers of the flag", anyone that dealt with Derann soon realised it should have been the Jolly Roger! Anyway, its all water
under the bridge, but leaves a somewhat bad taste regarding treatment not only of equipment and would be rescuers, but of the
supporters of the hobby as a whole. Shameful.



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RE: BFCC 64 at Ealing on 02,04.2016

#63 by David Hardy ( deleted ) , Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:21 pm

Yes Hugh the good old LP is still playable if still in good condition and well cared for.
I have some in my collection that are well over 50 years old now. No surface noise
or groove wear.
Yes its a shame that the Derann negs were not handed over to Phil Sheard.


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RE: BFCC 64 at Ealing on 02,04.2016

#64 by Graham Sinden , Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:43 am

Regarding the recording and striping machines. Yes they probably could have bean repaired but who really does have the space for them today. I certaintly don't and do not think anyone else on this forum does, or the need. Most of us here are more than happy using our own projectors to record the odd film, and don't have a massive need for striping. Yes you could maybe start a business, but there wouldn't be the workload to pay the mortgage and then there is the stress you could do without.

I think Derann also made the right choice in destroying the negatives. What could you really do with the negatives today. They would just be gathering dust on some collectors shelf and taking up a lot of space. It is uneconomical to start printing them again unless you have pots of cash, and I also wouldn't expect Phil or Steve to plough all their savings in to start printing Derann's entire back catalogue. Super 8 today just isn't selling in big enough numbers to make it viable with the cost of prints today from the german labs. We had it lucky for years with Derann using Film Lab North and Bucks lab that prints were a reasonable price and the quality was good.

just my thoughts
Graham S


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RE: BFCC 64 at Ealing on 02,04.2016

#65 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:47 am

As ordinary collectors Graham, as you rightly state, we would have no use for this stuff, but there are other people in the business,
indeed the negatives were requested, but refused to a dealer. No, I'm sorry, but the view was taken, an entirely selfish one, that what was Derann's was not going to be used by anyone else! The facts are there plain and simple, their "closing Down sale" where film labels
were being sold off, surely these could have been given to anyone that wanted them in attendance, laughable. I too cherish the time they were in business, but was disgusted by this basically nasty view that no one was going to benefit from anything they had, proves
to me that the customer didn't come first, if P.M, Walton, Mountain etc had taken the same stance, Derann's acquisition of their negatives wouldn't have happened, very one sided, very bad form.



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Last edited Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:53 am | Top

RE: BFCC 64 at Ealing on 02,04.2016

#66 by David Hardy ( deleted ) , Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:43 am

Which then raises the question as to what would have happened to the negatives had
Derek Simmonds still been alive when Derann had to close due to economic reasons.


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RE: BFCC 64 at Ealing on 02,04.2016

#67 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:38 pm

I'd like to think he would have said "By all means, use them", but you don't know, human nature and all that, but he was besides
being a businessman, he was also an enthusiast, so who knows, I've no doubt apart from the film stuff, the aged machinery could
have been reused, remember when he first started, before he got the Leevers Rich recording set up, he used to record soundtracks
on the old standby, the Eumig Mark S! So it shows to me, as if I needed convincing, where there is the will, there is the way, it all
seems primitive by today's standards, but it worked. Remember, as movie makers, the films were made, edited, sound striped and
recorded, sometimes just on tape synchronisers, which to our American friends might seem odd, but we used many methods of
synchronising tape to film back in the day, long before stripe sound, but these were part and parcel of cine, so a dealer being able to record his own soundtracks or being able to paste stripe prints, would have been a boon to have had these pieces of kit, the means were there, like anything else, there are procedures to follow, the trail has been blazed, it isn't magic, but when the means are removed, it helps keep cine based
in German hands.



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RE: BFCC 64 at Ealing on 02,04.2016

#68 by David Hardy ( deleted ) , Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:45 pm

Hugh it seems it is destined to be one of life's unanswered " What ifs ".



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Last edited Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:46 pm | Top

RE: BFCC 64 at Ealing on 02,04.2016

#69 by Tom Photiou , Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:24 pm

What if the German lab closes?


 
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RE: BFCC 64 at Ealing on 02,04.2016

#70 by Vidar Olavesen , Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:33 pm

I thought Ferrania was able to do this or is it just home movies they can do? I am not sure they have sound striper. But hope so, as they are soon in business. And what about Kodak? They're coming with new films, if enough people demands sound striped ones, maybe??? I am a dreamer, I know :-)


 
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RE: BFCC 64 at Ealing on 02,04.2016

#71 by Paul Browning , Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:12 pm

The problem is just that one company now has a complete monopoly on any new output of printing new film products, whether they are trailers cut downs or features, this is
never a good idea, with sale and demand dictated by just one company, if you don't want to pay then go away. If you look at some of the prices for parts for projectors, if you
could get all the parts to make a new machine, based on the cost of the parts alone the projector would cost you thousands of pounds when done. Sadly there is no choice for
some people who have no way of making a part or fixing it with a part, or the knowledge to fix the electronics when they go wrong, but I for one will not be held to ransom by
any one seeing an opportunity to make a fast buck.


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