Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#1 by Vidar Olavesen , Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:13 pm

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Your thoughts?



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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#2 by David Ollerearnshaw , Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:45 pm

Had one to say. Vitafilm say you can soak your films. Reels are a different type of plastic. Not had a problem yet! Any super 8mm with paste stripe now that could be a major problem.

I used to use 2.22 and found this OK. If you wanted to tape splice they made a solvent to remove the cleaner, used to leave brown marks on the first clean, I then rewound, nothing on cloth. Years later the films I used it on are still well lubed. DCR Films were always treated with 2.22 so ran smoothly.


I still love the smell of film in the morning


 
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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#3 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:14 pm

Hi David and Vidar, 2.22 was the best of the lot, sadly now gone, FilmRenew is very good, it is great on brittle or warped film and doesn't harm it, but like Vitafilm can't be imported to the UK, Cresclene can't be sent through the post either, so backed into a corner, I now use WD40, I purchased a gallon container for less than £25.00, so it should last a while. I had been using on 16mm with no adverse effect, so it will be my cleaner come wax of choice from now on. It has the ability to hide light marks and prints just glide through the machines.



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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#4 by David Hardy ( deleted ) , Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:23 pm

Hugh would I be correct in assuming you have to apply WD40 very sparingly ?


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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#5 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:42 pm

I just give it a wipe through as I used to do with 2.22, any residue seems to disappear after showing, but it does leave the print feeling very smooth. I should have used it years ago, it does as good a job as any of the others, at a fraction of the price. Give it a try David, if
it was in any way harmful to the film, I wouldn't use it, but there are no side effects, just a nice rock steady image.



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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#6 by David Hardy ( deleted ) , Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:37 pm

Is it okay on striped prints though ?


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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#7 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:53 pm

It doesn't seem to do any harm, I was a bit hesitant at first, but I cleaned a grubby film from ebay recently and it is fine.



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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#8 by Jacob Delaney , Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:01 pm

I've heard WD-40 can leech the dyes in color film. maybe cut a small piece of film off into two different jars with WD-40 and real film cleaner to see how it reacts between the two. I saw some old posts by John Pytlak from Kodak warning people not to use it.


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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#9 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:11 pm

No offence Jacob, but where were the experts from Kodak when they gave us Eastman?



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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#10 by Vidar Olavesen , Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:15 pm

Vacation?


 
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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#11 by Tom Photiou , Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:16 pm

good one Hugh. & Kodak invented the digital camera in the 70s but didn't go through with it, instead they let everyone else do it and it all but wiped them out
Have to say i use film guard, its harmless,(or i think it is) and now ive finally learnt to stop over doing it i dont get any problems with wow and flutter when it use to slide through the projector without touching the side.



 
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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#12 by Jacob Delaney , Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:20 pm

Different people different time? http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ult...t=003009#000012 There's the post to one of John Pytlak's posts on Film-Tech. (If posting links to outside forums isn't allowed I'll removed it)

Zitat
NEVER use WD-40 on film! - It will leach out the color dyes in the image. WD-40 will also cause visible "mottle" in the projected image, and hold dirt particles on the film. The damages may not immediately be noticeable upon projection, but does damage the print over time.

Here's a link to the US MSDS for WD-40:
http://www.wd40.com/Download/?/Brands/pd..._aerosol.us.pdf



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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#13 by Vidar Olavesen , Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:22 pm

No problems linking to other forums, but maybe not all will see it, if the other forum is locked for guests


 
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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#14 by Jacob Delaney , Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:25 pm

I quoted it just in case something ever happens to it. One thing I really like about there is the rules on never posting outside articles or pictures without also posting to the forum itself so if that link ever dies people who search old posts can see what they're talking about.


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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#15 by Jacob Delaney , Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:28 pm

Just like that WD-40 MSDS PDF... Here's an updated link if anyone cared to see it: http://www.wd40company.com/files/pdf/msds-wd494716385.pdf


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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#16 by Vidar Olavesen , Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:39 pm

Hmmm ... Eye tearing it says
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Scary stuff



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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#17 by Jacob Delaney , Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:43 pm

I like the smell of WD-40. Maybe I shouldn't stick my nose so close to it anymore.


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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#18 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:57 pm

I take the point Jacob, but the powers that be obviously don't want us to import known good film lubricants, they might
be hazardous, but like to import all kinds of terrorist wannabe's, that is much safer than a bottle of Film Renew obviously
As for WD40, well it isn't as though its immersed in the stuff, just a brief wipe to lessen friction. There is another site where
the guy says that Filmguard is basically WD40. I know it is was used by the professional cinemas, but all their films were destroyed after theirrun, so where is the proof of Filmguard being any better than WD40.



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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#19 by Jacob Delaney , Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:21 pm

I can't prove to you Filmguard is better but it's been used for many, many years by professional cinemas and film collectors and proven itself to be a safe way to clean films. Why risk it with at least not testing first? I'm sure you can find a dealer where you're at for filmguard and it isn't toxic like other cleaners so you shouldn't have trouble importing it if you have to. I'm all for trying new things so that's why I said soak film strips in a jar of WD-40 and a jar of FG or other legitimate and proven film cleaners and at least see how the two affect the color dyes. After that you can start by testing lesser valuable films and see how they do in the long term. A while ago there was a company named Cinema Products International (CPI) who was selling knockoff Filmguard and costumers were complaining on how the cleaner was causing color dyes to smear on screen and causing a bubbling affect on the film. Could have been a bottle of WD-40 for all we know. I have a few cans of WD-40 and Filmguard and some other photographic film cleaner so maybe I'll do some tests on some scrap film that I have.


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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#20 by Jacob Delaney , Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:27 pm

I also remember hearing about in another forum how in India some cinemas used oil to lubricate the film to prevent tearing from the bent metal reels they were using back then. The only problem they had in doing that I think were added dirt I think.

I see people trying WD-40 often so maybe hopefully someone who actually had experience with it will post.


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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#21 by Andrew Woodcock , Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:38 pm

I love Filmguard and since I began using it, I realized very early on that I would never need use any other film cleaner ever again.

My old Derann stock just sits on a shelf by and large now from one year to another.


 
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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#22 by Jacob Delaney , Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:56 pm

See how everyone who uses Filmguard sounds like a salesman or cheap commercial? It's just THAT good! I'm willing to try out Vitafilm or others to treat twisty film (I know it doesn't "cure" it) but with my Christie film cleaner and 16mm I'll stick to FG for a standard cleaner/wax. Rubbing alcohol is OK to use for film spot cleaning, it's even recommended by Kodak but it can also dry out the base if you apply too much. I have some PEC-12 photo emulsion cleaner that I've used for slides and stuff but I haven't tried it on motion picture film yet. Might be good for cleaning tape residue.


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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#23 by David Ollerearnshaw , Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:59 pm

Andrew you could sell the derann cleaner on e bay "Ultra rare" £99 Nothing to test it on.


I still love the smell of film in the morning


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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#24 by Andrew Woodcock , Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:05 pm

LoL David. Indeed!


 
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RE: Safe or not ... Film cleaners?

#25 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:03 am

I can understand that the pro cinema used this stuff,Filmguard, but like I said, it is only on the print for a short time before it is destroyed, also the price is prohibitive, I could buy 7 pints of FilmRenew (the USA gallon ) for much the same price before it was banned. Some collectors extolled the use of Thermofilm, which actually didn't have time to do anything except evaporate as soon as it touched the film, if ever there was a case of "the Emperors New Clothes", this was it, it used to be good, but it just became a very volatile expense.
The film was as dry as it was before use, any benefits were to the sellers of this rubbish.
Then we had the "pro" stuff called "Liquid Blue", that damaged some filmstocks and plastic spools, sold by Derann who should have known better. So for the present, WD40 does the job, its only a wipe to ease friction, I've used it on 16mm for a few years now and
so far no ill effects, it tidied a striped s/8 print okay, there are quite a lot of collectors using it still.



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Last edited Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:04 am | Top

   

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