Missing "real" cartoons

#1 by Vidar Olavesen , Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:19 am

After seeing mostly computer drawn cartoons, I really miss the proper cartoons. Sure, the newer ones are funny enough, but just lacks all the proper atmosphere. I wish Disney went back to the old style again. Snow White, Robin Hood and Pinocchio are delightfully charming. Money sucks, destroys proper art


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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#2 by Andrew Woodcock , Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:31 am

The top quality hand drawn stuff is the real art form in my book.
Sure the Pixar animations are entertaining and still very skilfully put together but my fullest admiration will always go to those artists that created tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of hand drawn works of art!

My step son is studying stop motion to degree level currently at University.
Sure the things he shows me impress me but creating them all on a Apple Mac pc with the careful selection of pixel placement running alongside some very clever programming, just doesn't carry the same level of skill as what I describe above to me.

Still its never going to go backwards again, so we simply have to enjoy the modern stuff for what it is and the manner it is created.



 
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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#3 by Vidar Olavesen , Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:42 am

Or stop watching is another option. I tend to go more and more backwards and I probably don't buy more than 10 DVD/Blu-Rays a year now. I rather put on a film and enjoy something I've seen. :-) And I have no Disney features yet, except for Song of the South on 16mm, so still films to buy a while longer.


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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#4 by Andrew Woodcock , Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:41 am

Lots of then Vidar!



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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#5 by Barry Attwood , Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:18 pm

The trouble these days using the hand drawn method is time scale, although the modern Pixar films and the like take around 3 years to produce, a hand drawn feature could take as long as 5 years, basically because we've lost a lot of the great hand drawn artists over the years, and lets face it, none of the big companies are now set up for major hand drawn animation anymore. The nearest we get is the stop motion Aardman releases, and there last big release "An adventure with Pirates and Scientists" took 5 years from start to finish, so there you have it, again it comes down to time and always MONEY!!!.


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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#6 by Vidar Olavesen , Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:32 pm

That's what I mean. I hate that art is no longer important; only money. Where is the pride? I wouldn't feel proud to have a computer doing the work. And it looks far worse in my eyes. Money world is not my dream world



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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#7 by Barry Attwood , Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:35 pm

Unfortunately we're talking 'Hollywood' here Vidar, where the $ Dollar Bill is King!


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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#8 by Andrew Woodcock , Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:44 pm

As Vidar says sad but very true Barry. You are spot on!


 
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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#9 by Steve Carter ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:20 pm

It's the censorship that goes on now with old cartoons, cutting 'Mammy Two Shoes' from Tom & Jerry, even smoking scenes have been cut. They will have their work cut out with Gerry Anderson's puppet output, those puppets were heavy smokers. People must remember they were of their time and as such should be left intact, do we re-write history and be selective about what did happen?, if you are offended don't buy them, but leave them alone for those who like them for what they are. I for one miss Mammy shouting "Thomaaaas!"


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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#10 by Mats Abelli , Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:21 pm

Nothing beats classic animation. Pixar movies may be funny, but I will not spend my money on them, as long as thera are uncensored classic cartoon to be found. My favourites where produced 1093 - 1960


 
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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#11 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:35 pm

It's all very well Steve, but those puppets were on 40 a day, trying to manipulate those strings while they are in the middle of a coughing fit, was a bit too much for some of the puppeteers, I do believe Parker was a secret drinker, and him a chauffer, its no wonder he looked
a bit unsteady on his feet, Lady Penelope did complain and tried to pull a few strings, but as she said, "For all the good it did, I might as well have been talking to a piece of wood!"



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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#12 by Robert Crewdson ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:00 pm

Remember the early days of ITV and puppets like Twizzle and Torchie the battery boy; the strings visible on screen were so thick they could have anchored the Queen Mary.



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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#13 by Tom Photiou , Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:47 pm

I hate modern animation, you cannot beat a good Tom & Jerry or Warner cartoon. Or a Disney classic and on Super 8 we are at least blessed with Tom and Jerry's being left uncut, & a host of Disney Features with quality that no disc can match,(apart from Walton's versions ).
All that PC crap has even killed those cartoons on the disc and VHS versions. You simply cannot buy them as they were made, all the black faces with the big white lips have been removed or changed. Pathetic stupid politicly correct idiots.
If i say what they really are i could well be banned.



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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#14 by Vidar Olavesen , Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:51 pm

I second that hate for PC ... Why try to change history? If it's bad, learn from it. If you hide it from new people, they will not learn and might make mistakes that could have been avoided. A film showing historic events, should never be changed to be PC. Show history as it was, learn from it


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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#15 by Andrew Woodcock , Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:05 pm

Crikey Tom... can I borrow your box set of "Love Thy Neighbour"?


 
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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#16 by Steve Carter ( deleted ) , Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:21 pm

Can't beat a bit of Eddie and Bill, and I'll 'ave half.



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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#17 by Tom Photiou , Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:40 pm

Hey Andrew, you can if you wish, i do have one. Its great, at the end of the day the cartoons were simply funny slapstick comedies made to make everyone, especially children, laugh. And they are still making us laugh today.
I think once we got past The lion king and beauty and the beast thats when cartoons went down hill.
Finding nemo was OK but i think it would have worked better if it had been hand drawn in the traditional way.



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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#18 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:05 am

My own opinion of Disney animated films is this, the older drawn films had the skills of people like Joshua Meador, a very skilled
draughtsman, he created "The creature from the ID" for the sci-fi epic "Forbidden Planet", the old films were indeed works of art,
any frame could be hung on a wall, diction was good, the songs were melodious. Alas the style changed for the worse with later films
that looked like cheap TV cartoons, then Pixar computer graphics, which while clever, somehow the magic was not there, coupled with
smart arse dialogue, a lot of it bad to catch, "Aladdin" being a prime culprit, yes I had a print, but quickly sold it on. Somehow they were
now getting crude in comedy, the child like innocence of "Pinocchio" and "Snow White" had gone, everyone now in Pixar is a smart arse,
maybe you can't recapture the past, but all the techno in the world doesn't mean you can improve on it either.



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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#19 by Andrew Woodcock , Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:49 am

I still somehow manage to love em all though Hugh, but I do know exactly what you mean Hugh and I cannot disagree with anything you say there at all.



 
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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#20 by Robert Crewdson ( deleted ) , Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:08 am

We shouldn't forget Max Fleisher, with his 'Hoppity goes to Town', and 'Gulliver's Travels'; didn't Fleisher also do the original Popeye; I think he also did Betty Boop.



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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#21 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:13 pm

Fleisher & Disney were rivals, Disney had the idea that only he should be doing animated films, aklthough he shocked everyone
when he chose Richard Fleischer, Max's son , as Director of his first live action picture "Twenty Thousand Leagues Under The Sea",
why this was never released through DFS is a wonder to me.



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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#22 by Steve Carter ( deleted ) , Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:47 pm

Didn't they rotoscope Gulliver? Disney also used this technique.


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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#23 by Robert Crewdson ( deleted ) , Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:51 pm

I don't know what Rotoscope is; they were certainly two fine cartoons from Fleisher. Britain had a cartoonist named Anson Dyer; I don't know much about him, I only have a poor silent copy of one of his cartoons, which I haven't seen all the way through. A piece of rubbish I got from Lee's Cameras.



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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#24 by Vidar Olavesen , Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:56 pm


 
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RE: Missing "real" cartoons

#25 by Hugh Thompson Scott ( deleted ) , Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:12 pm

In its simplest terms Robert, it involves an actor going through the motions, then copied onto film as a drawing, thus saving
countless hours of redrawing each movement. It is in fact a device where a small lamp housing is attached inside a camera
that allows the projection of pre shot film through the camera itself, allowing for precise mattes. In Gullivers case
that's how it was done.



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